DOMESTIC PROCEEDINGS AND MAGISTRATES' COURTS BILL [H.L.]

HL Deb 09 June 1978 vol 392 cc1640-72

3.20 p.m.

The MINISTER of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Harris of Greenwich)

My Lords, I beg to move that the Commons Amendments be now considered.

Moved, That the Commons Amendments be now considered.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[References are to Bill [80] as first printed for the Commons]

[No. 1.] Clause 6, page 6, line 44, leave out subsection (6).

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 1. At present Clause 6, which is the clause enabling a court to make a consent order where the parties are in agreement, contains a provision which states that if the court decides not to make an order under that clause, it may proceed with the case as if an application had been made for an order under Clause 2. This provision is in subsection (6); the Amendment removes it. This Amendment was proposed by the Opposition in another place. The Government saw no reason to oppose it. We came to the conclusion that there was justification for saying that Clause 6(6) puts the respondent at some disadvantage.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

3.20 p.m.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 2 to 5.] After Clause 6, insert the following new clause:

Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement

'.—(1) Where the parties to a marriage have been living apart for a continuous period exceeding three months, neither party having deserted the other, and one of the parties has been making periodical payments for the benefit of the other party or of a child of the family, that other party may apply to a magistrates' court for an order under this section, and any application made under this subsection shall specify the aggregate amount of the payments so made during the period of three months immediately preceding the date of the making of the application.

(2) Where on an application for an order under this section the court is satisfied that the respondent has made the payments specified in the application, the court may, subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act, make one or both of the following orders, that is to say—

1. (a) an order that the respondent shall make to the applicant such periodical payments, and for such term, as may be specified in the order;
2. (b) an order that the respondent shall make to the applicant for the benefit of a child of the family to whom the application relates, or to such a child, such periodical payments, and for such term, as may be so specified.

(3) The court in the exercise of its powers under this section—

1. (a) shall not require the respondent to make payments which exceed in aggregate during 1642 any period of three months the aggregate amount paid by him for the benefit of the applicant or a child of the family during the period of three months immediately preceding the date of the making of the application;
2. (b) shall not require the respondent to make payments to or for the benefit of any person which exceed in amount the payments which the court considers that it would have required the respondent to make to or for the benefit of that person on an application under section 1 of this Act;
3. (c) shall not require payments to be made to or for the benefit of a child of the family who is not a child of the respondent unless the court considers that it would have made an order in favour of that child on an application under section 1 of this Act.

(4) Where on an application under this section the court considers that the orders which it has the power to make under this section would not—

1. (a) provide reasonable maintenance for the applicant, or
2. (b) if the application relates to a child of the family, would not provide, or make a proper contribution towards reasonable maintenance for that child,

the court shall refuse to make an order under this section, but the court may treat the application as if it were an application for an order under section 2 of this Act.

(5) The provisions of section 3 of this Act shall apply in relationto an application for an order under this section as they apply in relation to an application for an order under section 2 of this Act subject to the modification that for the reference in subsection (1) of the said section 3 to the occurrence of the conduct which is alleged as the ground of the application there shall be substituted a reference to the living apart of the parties to the marriage.

(6) The provisions of section 4 of this Act shall apply in relation to an order under this section which requires periodical payments to be made to the applicant for his own benefit as they apply in relation to an order under section 2(1)(a) of this Act.

(7) The provisions of section 5 of this Act shall apply in relation to an order under this section for the making of periodical payments in respect of a child of the family as they apply in relation to an order under section 2(1)(c) of this Act.'

Clause 7, page 7, line 23, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 7, page 7, line 28, leave out 'or 6' and insert', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 7, page 7, line 30, leave out 'or 6' and insert', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 2, 3, 4 and 5. With the leave of the House, I should like to speak at the same time to Amendments Nos. 10, 22, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 43, 44, 47, 50, 51, 52, 53, 61, 62, 63, 64, 71 and 74.

The new clause enables an applicant to apply for an order for financial provision in a case where the parties to the marriage are living apart by agreement and there are no grounds in Clause 1 on which an application for an order can be made. It was argued in another place that while the grounds for the making of an order in a disputed case should be as recommended by the Law Commission is set out in Clause 1 of the Bill, and the provision now in Clause 6 for the making of a consent order should also be preserved, there was a further case which merited consideration and which was not covered by the Bill; that is, where the parties to the marriage have agreed to separate and the respondent is making voluntary payments, but he has not agreed to the making of an order for a specific amount under the procedure laid down. Subsection (6) of the clause enables the court to proceed in such a case on the basis of an implied consent by the respondent, and to make an order for an amount which is related to the payment he has made, thus affording the separated wife the security of a court order.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, this is plainly an improvement to the Bill. It adds to the already fairly substantial flexibility of what the magistrates' courts can do. I am very glad that now, even in this Bill, when a gap has been found, the Government have agreed to fill it. It brings about the most enormous number of consequential Amendments, but those will not have to be discussed any further. I am entirely in agreement with the course of taking them all in this way, as the noble Lord has suggested.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 6 and 7.] Clause 7, page 7, line 34, leave out 'the right of' Clause 7, page 7, line 34, leave out second ' of' and insert' by'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 6 and 7.

With the leave of the House I should also like to speak at the same time to Amendment No. 28. These are drafting Amendments.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments. — (Lord Harris of Greenwich.).

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 8 and 9.]

Clause 10, page 11, line 1, after '10' insert— '( ) Where on an application under section 1 of this Act the court, although not satisfied of any ground mentioned in that section, makes an order under section 7(2) of this Act giving to the applicant the right to the actual custody of a child of the family, the court shall have the same powers to make an order in respect of that child under section 2(1) (c) and (d) of this Act as the court would have if it were so satisfied.'

Clause 10, page 11, leave out lines 11 to 21 and insert— '(7) Where the court, by virtue of subsection (6) of section 7 of this Act, directs that an order made under subsection (2) of that section in respect of a child, or the provision thereof providing for the custody of the child, shall not have effect until the expiration of a specified period or the occurrence of a specified event, an order made in respect of that child under subsection (1)(a) or (2)(a) above shall only require payments to be made from the date on which the order made under section 7(2) of this Act, or that provision thereof, takes effect.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 8 and 9.

With the leave of the House, I should like to speak at the same time to Amendments Nos. 41, 42, 45, 46 and 48.

This group of Amendments is intended to deal with a lacuna in the Bill which was drawn to the Government's attention by the Magistrates' Association. Its purpose is to ensure that, whatever the circumstances of a particular case, a court will always be able to make a maintenance order for a child. The existing law is embodied in the Matrimonial Proceedings (Magistrates Courts) Act 1960, and provides that where a court has begun to hear a case, then, whether or not the court makes the order which is subject to the application, it may in any event make an order for the custody, care, supervision and maintenance of the child. This ensures that whatever the rights and wrongs of the matrimonial situation the court may make orders in the interests of the children.

The Law Commission recommended that the effect of existing law on this point should be preserved. In general, the Bill gives effect to this recommendation. However, there is one type of case which is not covered by the Bill at present. That is where an applicant applies for an order under Clause 1, but fails to satisfy the court on any of the grounds in, that clause. Such a situation could arise either because the applicant does not have a case on any of the grounds in Clause 1 or because, as quite often happens, she and the respondent may come to an agreement not to pursue this part of the application, but to deal only with the question of custody and maintenance of the children. In such a case, if custody of the children is then awarded to the applicant, there is no power to award maintenance for them under the Bill as it stands. The Amendments will enable the court to make such an order.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, this gives teeth to the principle in Clause 13 that we put into the Bill, that whenever the court does have an opportunity to look at the interests of the child or children, it should be enabled to do so. This is a case where the court is being given powers which it did not have when it was omitted from the Bill. It is a tribute to the diligence of the Magistrates' Association that it followed this through so carefully and pointed out a lacuna that even the Government had failed to notice. In my view, it is entirely right that it should be filled.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 10.] Clause 11, page 12, line 23, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 10. This is consequential.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 11.] Clause 11, page 14, line 12, leave out 'both' and insert 'any'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 11. This is a drafting Amendment.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 12.] After clause 12, insert the following new clause:

Access to children by grandparents

.—(1) A magistrates' court, on making an order under section 7(2) of this Act regarding the legal custody of a child or at any time while such an order is in force, shall have power on an application made by a grandparent of the child, to make such order requiring access to the child to be given to that grandparent as the court thinks fit.

(2) Subsections (5), (6), (7)(b) and (8) of section 7 and subsection (9) of section 9 of this Act shall apply in relation to an order under this section as they apply in relation to an order under section 7(2)(b) of this Act.

(3) Where a magistrates' court has made an order under subsection (1) above requiring access to a child to be given to a grandparent, the court shall have power to vary or revoke that order on an application made—

1. (a) by that grandparent, or
2. (b) by either party to the marriage in question, or
3. (c) if the child is not a child of both the parties to the marriage, by any person who though not a party to the marriage is a parent of that child.

(4) Section 11 of this Act shall apply in relation to the exercise by a court of its powers under this section on an application under subsection (1) or (3) above as it applies in relation to the exercise by the court of its powers under sections 7 to 9 of this Act on an application under section 1 of this Act, and any reference to a party to the proceedings in subsection (4) or (5) of section 11 of this Act shall include—

1. (a) in the case of an application under subsection (1) above, a reference to the grandparent who has made an application under that subsection; and
2. (b) in the case of an application under subsection (3) above, a reference to the grandparent who has access to the child under the order for the variation or revocation of which the application is made.

(5) Where an order made under section 7(2)(a) of this Act in relation to a child ceases to have effect, whether by virtue of an order or direction of a magistrates' court or by virtue of any provision of this Part of this Act, any order made under this section regarding access to the child by a grandparent shall also cease to have effect.

(6) A court shall have power to make an order under this section in favour of a grandparent of a child notwithstanding that the child is illegitimate.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons on their Amendment No. 12. With the leave of the House, I should like to speak at the same time to Amendments Nos. 49, 58, 59, 65, 66, 67, 70, 73, 75, 76, 89, 90 and 92.

This group of Amendments deals with cases where a grandparent wishes to see his grandchild and, for one reason or another, is denied access. As your Lordships are no doubt aware, there had been concern about this problem for some time. In the last Session a Bill was introduced in another place which would have allowed grandparents to apply for access to their grandchildren, but it failed to make progress because, as is often the case, there was a lack of Parliamentary time. This Bill has now offered another opportunity to do something about this problem. At the Committee stage in another place Amendments were inserted to allow grandparents to apply for access to their grandchildren.

The difficulty about these Amendments was that they allowed grandparents a completely unrestricted right to institute proceedings. The Government have considerable sympathy with the objective of allowing grandparents to see a grandchild where this is in the child's interests. We do not feel, however—this view is shared by those whom we have consulted, including the Law Commission, my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor and the President of the Family Division—that that right should be totally unrestricted. Where a child is living with both his parents in an ordinary happy home, we think it would be undesirable to allow grandparents to disrupt the family by instituting court proceedings. The Government therefore removed the Amendments which we are now considering at Report stage in another place.

These Amendments allow a grandparent to apply for access in two broad categories of case, first, where the parents have separated and secondly, where one or both of the parents are dead. The Amendments do not deal with cases where the parents are divorced, this is because there is already power under the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973 for a divorce court to grant a grandparent access. No further provision in these cases is therefore necessary.

I will now describe briefly the effect of these Amendments. There are two new clauses. The first deals with cases where the parties bring matrimonial proceedings under Part I of the Bill; that is, cases where parties to the marriage are separated and are applying for maintenance, custody and so on. The new clause provides that, where the court makes an order in matrimonial proceedings relating to the custody of the child, a grandparent may apply for access. The grandparent may apply either in the course of the matrimonial proceedings or afterwards.

The second new clause introduces a new provision into the Guardianship of Minors Act 1971. This Act is often invoked by parties to a marriage who do not wish to bring matrimonial proceedings, for example because they have regularised other matters by agreement and are concerned only about the arrangements for the children. In that event, there is provision in Section 9 of the Guardianship of Minors Act 1971 for either parent to apply for an order for custody or access. Subsection (1) of the new clause provides that, where one of the parties obtains an order under Section 9 of the 1971 Act, a grandparent may apply for access. As in the case of matrimonial proceedings, the grandparent may apply at the same time or afterwards My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, that this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, the real credit for these Amendments must be given to my honourable friend the Member for Cambridge who has been campaigning for this for some time. So far as I know, he is entirely happy that the applications that the grandparents can make, either under Amendment No. 12 or Amendment No. 67, which is the other Amendment about which the noble Lord spoke, have to be confined to cases where the court is already seized of the matter under proceedings started by somebody else. That will then give them the opportunity rather than allowing them completely free access which was the original idea. This seems to me to be an improvement, and I welcome the two new clauses and all the consequential Amendments that go with them.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 13 and 14.]

Clause 14, page 15, line 32, after 'respondent' insert '(or would be in such danger if the applicant or child were to enter the matrimonial home)'

Clause 14, page 15, line 37, at end insert— '(3A) Where the court makes an order under subsection (3) above, the court may, if it thinks fit, make a further order requiring the respondent to permit the applicant to enter and remain in the matrimonial home.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 13 and 14, which I move en bloc.

These Amendments give magistrates power where they have made an order under Clause 14 subsection (3) excluding a violent spouse from the matrimonial home, to make a further order requiring the violent party to permit the victim of the violence to return to the home and remain in it. The noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross, argued persuasively during the passage of the Bill in this House that magistrates should be given this power. The purpose of the power is to stop a violent spouse who is excluded from the home taking steps such as changing the locks (to take one fairly obvious example) to prevent the other party who has fled, from going back to the matrimonial house and occupying it. The Government agreed to look at the matter again in consultation with the Law Commission, and the result of our consultation was that the Law Commission and the President of the Family Division both agreed that it would be desirable to make this change. The Government therefore put down these Amendments. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, all I need to say is a word of thanks to the Government for the further consultations and for accepting the idea that I put forward. There has been a considerable clarification of this whole area of the law not only with the introduction of these Amendments but with the decision of this House in Davis and Johnson, and I think that we have now reached the state where there is reasonable consistency over the whole field of the three pieces of legislation that concern this particular matter. I am very glad to see these Amendments and I welcome them.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 15 and 16.]

Clause 14, page 16, line 18, at end insert— '(6A) An expedited order shall not take effect until the date on which notice of the making of the order is served on the respondent in such manner as may be prescribed or, if the court specified a later date as the date on which the order is to take effect, that later date, and an expedited order shall cease to have effect on whichever of the following dates occurs first, that is to say—

1. (a) the date of the expiration of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the making of the order; or
2. (b) the date of the commencement of the hearing, in accordance with the provisions of Part II of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1952, of the application for an order under this section.'

Clause 14, page 16, line 21, leave out 'rules made under section 15(3) of this Act' and insert 'subsection (6A) above'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 15 and 16, which I would move en bloc, and with the leave of the House I should also like to speak at the same time to Amendments Nos. 18 and 19. These Amendments have the effect of providing on the face of the Bill for the duration of so-called expedited orders, that is to say of personal protection orders, which are made in an emergency without the normal procedural requirements being satisfied. At present, the Bill leaves this to be dealt with by rules of court. It was argued during the passage of the Bill in another place that the duration of an expedited order was a matter of sufficient importance to warrant the inclusion of provisions in the Bill itself. The Government undertook to consider the matter and subsequently introduced these Amendments at the Report stage in another place. I beg to move.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.— (Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 17.] Clause 15, page 16, line 29, leave out subsection (1).

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 17, and, with the leave of the House, I should like at the same time to speak to Amendment No. 21. These Amendments provide for subsection (1) of Clause 15 to be omitted and for a new clause to be inserted after Clause 15. So far as subsection (1) of Clause 15 is concerned, this provision now appears as subsection (4) of the new clause, so nothing has been lost from the Bill. The change of substance is the other provisions in the new clause. These enable a magistrates' court to attach a power of arrest to a personal protection order or a domestic exclusion order where the court is satisfied that the respondent has physically injured the applicant and considers that he is likely to do so again.

Where the court does attach such power of arrest to an order, a police officer may arrest the respondent without warrant if he has reasonable cause for suspecting that the respondent is in breach of the order, and bring him before a justice of the peace, who may then remand him in accordance with the normal procedure to be dealt with by a court for the alleged breach. I beg to move.

Moved, that this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.— (Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, the essence of the new clause in Amendment No. 21 really is speed of action where it has already been established before the court in the first instance that one of the parties to the marriage, or a child, might be in danger. It is not much use at that stage having to go back again to the court next day if the policeman finds the husband standing on the doorstep waving something very large and heavy. Therefore, this does seem a sensible provision, particularly since the court will already have had an opportunity to consider the matter before they give to a constable this power to arrest on the spot.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 18 and 19.]

Clause 15, page 17, leave out lines 6 to 13. line 14, leave out from 'of' to end of line 16 and insert 'subsection (6A) of section 14 of this Act of an expedited order shall not prejudice the making of a further expedited order under that section.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 18 and 19. These are consequential Amendments.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 20.]

Clause 15, page 17, line 16, at end insert— '(5) Except so far as the exercise by the respondent of a right to occupy the matrimonial home is suspended or restricted by virtue of an order made under subsection (3) of section 14 of this Act, an order made under that section shall not affect any estate or interest in the matrimonial home of the respondent or any other person.'

3.40 p.m.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 20. This Amendment inserts a provision in the Bill to make it clear that the making of a domestic exclusion order under Clause 14 subsection (3) does not affect the property rights of the parties concerned. Concern was expressed on this point by the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross, during the passage of the Bill through this House, and the Government agreed to look at the matter again. We have consulted the Law Commission and the President of the Family Division, and they have recommended that there should be an express provision on this point in the Bill.

Where the court makes a domestic exclusion order, this will prevent the excluded party from occupying the matrimonial home for as long as the order is in force even though he may be the sole owner of the home. But a magistrates' court order does not deprive him of his ownership nor does it affect the rights of third parties who might be involved, such as a building society which lent the purchase money on the mortgage. The Amendment makes this clear. I beg to move.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, again I say "Thank you" to the Government. It would be quite wrong for the magistrates' courts to be able to make an order that affects any property rights. It was really the fear of this happening if we had a provision such as what is now Amendment No. 14 that, at the time of the Bill being in this House previously, restrained the Government from accepting my suggestion of Amendment No. 14. I am very glad therefore that they have been able to deal with both parts of this matter.

I think I am right that this House sitting judicially has really laid down the same rule for similar orders in the county court in the case of Davis and Johnson. So again the law will now all be in line wherever one of these disputes has to be settled and wherever these powers of exclusion are used. It seems to me entirely admirable that we should make it clear on the face of this Bill when we have the opportunity.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

Nos. 21 and 22] After Clause 15, insert the following new clause—

Powers of arrest for breach of s. 14 order.

'.—(1) Where a magistrates' court makes an order under section 14 of this Act which provides that the respondent—

1. (a) shall not use violence against the person of the applicant, or
2. (b) shall not use violence against a child of the family, or
3. (c) shall not enter the matrimonial home, the court may, if it is satisfied that the respondent has physically injured the applicant or a child of the family and considers that he is likely to do so again, attach a power of arrest to the order.

(2) Where by virtue of subsection (1) above a power of arrest is attached to an order, a constable may arrest without warrant a person whom he has reasonable cause for suspecting of being in breach of any such provision of the order as is mentioned in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) of subsection (1) above by reason of that person's use of violence or, as the case may be, his entry into the matrimonial home.

(3) Where a power of arrest is attached to an order under subsection (1) above and the respondent is arrested under subsection (2) above—

1. (a) he shall be brought before a justice of the peace within a period of 24 hours beginning at the time of his arrest, and
2. (b) the justice of the peace before whom he is brought may remand him.

In reckoning for the purposes of this subsection any period of 24 hours, no account shall be taken of Christmas Day, Good Friday, or any Sunday.

(4) Where a court has made an order under section 14 of this Act but has not attached to the order a power of arrest under subsection (1) above, then, if at any time the applicant for that order considers that the other party to the marriage in question has disobeyed the order, he may apply for the issue of a warrant for the arrest of that other party to a justice of the peace for the commission area in which either party to the marriage ordinarily resides; but a justice of the peace shall not issue a warrant on such an application unless—

1. (a) the application is substantiated on oath, and
2. (b) the justice has reasonable grounds for believing that the other party to the marriage has disobeyed that order.

(5) The magistrates' court before whom any person is brought by virtue of a warrant issued under subsection (4) above may remand him.'

Clause 16, page 17, line 19, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 21 and 22. These are consequential Amendments.

Moved, that this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich).

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 23 to 27.]

Clause 16, page 17, line 30, leave out from beginning to 'power' in line 33.

Clause 16, page 17, line 36, leave out 'that child' and insert 'any child of the family who is under the age of eighteen'

Clause 16, page 17, line 37, leave out first 'the' and insert 'such a'

Clause 16, page 17, line 39, at beginning insert 'power'

Clause 16, page 17, line 42, leave out 'the court shall have power'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 23, 24, 25, 26 and 27, which I move en bloc. These Amendments relate to the powers of the court to make interim maintenance orders under Clause 16. As the Bill stands, before the court may make an interim maintenance order it must be satisfied that the applicant, or a child of the family, is in immediate need of financial assistance. There is no such restriction on the powers of the court to make interim maintenance orders under existing law as provided by Section 6 of the Matrimonial Proceedings (Magistrates Courts) Act 1960. It is simply left to the court's discretion to make an interim order if it thinks it appropriate.

Moreover, the provisions of Clause 16 also differ from the corresponding provisions for maintenance proceedings contained in Claude 40 of the Bill. There is no requirement in Clause 40 that the applicant be in immediate need of financial assistance. We think it is right to preserve existing law on this point; the Amendments therefore remove the requirements at present in Clause 16. The applicant, or a child, should be in immediate need of financial assistance before the court may make an interim maintenance order and it is left entirely to the court to decide whether or not such an order is appropriate.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 28 to 33.]

Clause 16, page 17, line 46, leave out 'the right of'

Clause 16, page 18, line 12, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 16, page 18, line 25, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 16, page 18, line 40, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 16, page 19, line 11, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'.

Clause 17, page 19, line 40, at end insert— '(2A) Where a magistrates' court has made an order under section (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement) of this Act for the making of periodical payments, the court shall have power, on an application made under this section, to vary or revoke that order.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 28 to 33 en bloc. These are consequential.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 34 and 35.] Clause 17, page 20, line 28, leave out 'or revokes' Clause 17, page 20, line 31, after 'payments' insert 'as so varied'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 34 and 35. These Amendments are purely technical drafting Amendments.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 36 to 53.]

Clause 17, page 21, line 15, after '6' insert '(Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 17, page 21, line 31, after '6' insert '(Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 17, page 21, line 36, after '6' insert '(Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 17, page 21, line 38, after '6' insert '(Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'.

Clause 18, page 21, line 40, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 18, page 22, line 8, after '8' insert 'or' leave out 'or 10'

Clause 18, page 22, line 10, leave out 'or 6 ' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 18, page 22, line 14, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'.

Clause 18, page 22, line 16, after '8' insert 'or'

Clause 18, page 22, line 17, leave out 'or 10'

Clause 18, page 22, line 34, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 18, page 22, line 35, at end insert— '(5A) Any reference to section 10(1), (2) or (7) of this Act to an order made under section 7(2) of this Act includes a reference to an order made under the said section 7(2) by virtue of this section and to an order made under the said section 7(2) which is varied under this section, and any reference in section 10(3) of this Act to an order made under section 9(1) of this Act includes a reference to an order made under the said section 9(1) by virtue of this section, and where by virtue of an order under this section the right to the actual custody of a child is given to the person who made the original application for an order under section 1 or 6 of this Act, the court shall have power to make an order under section 2(1)(c) and (d) of this Act in respect of that child.'

Clause 20, page 23, line 19, after 'section' insert (Access to children by grandparents) (3)'

Clause 22, page 24, line 13, after 'Act' insert (otherwise than on an application under section (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement) of this Act)'

Clause 22, page 24, line 32, after 'Act' insert '(otherwise than on an application under section (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement) of this Act)'

Clause 22, page 24, line 44, at end insert— '(2A) Any order made under section (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement) of this Act, and any interim maintenance order made on an application for an order under that section, shall cease to have effect if the parties to the marriage resume living with each other.'

Page 25, line 2, after '(1)' insert 'or (2A)'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree wih the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 36 to 53 en bloc. These are consequential Amendments.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 54 to 57.]

Clause 25, page 25, leave out lines 36 to 41 and insert 'an order under this Part of this Act'

Clause 25, page 26, line 1, after second 'court' insert 'then, except in the case of an order for the payment of a lump sum'

Clause 25, page 26, line 3, leave out 'under this part of this Act' and insert 'by a magistrates' court.'

Clause 25, page 26, line 5, at end insert— '(2) Where after the making by a magistrates' court of an order under subsection (3) of section 14 of this Act in relation to a matrimonial home, one of the parties to the marriage in question applies for an order to be made in relation to that matrimonial home under—

1. (a) section 1(2) of the Matrimonial Homes Act 1967 (which enables an application to be made for an order relating to rights of occupation under that Act or relating to the exercise by either spouse of a right to occupy a dwelling house), or
2. (b) section 4 of the Domestic Violence and Matrimonial Proceedings Act 1976 (which enables an application to be made for an order relating to the exercise of the right to occupy a dwelling house where both spouses have joint rights),

the High Court or county court by which that application is heard may, if it thinks fit, direct that the order made under subsection (3) of section 14 of this Act, and any order made under subsectio (3A) of that section in relation to that matrimonial home, shall cease to have effect on such date as may be specified in the direction.

(3) Nothing in this section shall be taken as prejudicing the effect of any order made by the High Court or a county court so far as it implicitly supersedes or revokes an order or part of an order made by a magistrates' court.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 54 to 57. I propose to move these en bloc. These are technical Amendments which are designed to clarify the relationship between orders which have been made by magistrates' courts in matrimonial proceedings under Part I of the Bill and orders made by the High Court or a county court in subsequent divorce proceedings.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 58.] Clause 26, page 26, line 41, at end insert '(Access to children by grandparents) (3)'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 58. This is a consequential Amendment.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 59.] Clause 27, page 27, leave out lines 24 to 27.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 59 and, with the leave of the House, I should like to speak at the same time to Amendments Nos. 85, 86, 87, 88 and 91. These are drafting Amendments. They take account of a technical change made in Section 15(1) of the Maintenance Orders Act 1950 by the Administration of Justice Act 1977.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 60.] After Clause 27, insert the following new clause—

Constitution of courts

'.—(1) Where the hearing of an application under section 1 of this Act is adjourned after the court has decided that it is satisfied of any ground mentioned in that section, the court which resumes the hearing of that application may include justices who were not sitting when the hearing began if—

1. (a) the parties to the proceedings agree; and
2. (b) at least one of the justices composing the court which resumes the hearing was sitting when the hearing of the application began.

(2) Where, by virtue of subsection (1) above, among the justices composing the court which resumes the hearing of an application under section 1 of this Act there are any justices who were not sitting when the hearing of the application began, the court which resumes the hearing shall before making any order on the application make such inquiry into the facts and circumstances of the case as will enable the justices who were not sitting when the hearing began to be fully acquainted with those facts and circumstances.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 60. This new clause is intended to deal with a practical problem which arises at present in matrimonial cases, causing difficulties to the courts and distress to the parties. It provides that where a court has reached a decision on an application under Clause 1 and then adjourns to consider some further matter arising, then, if for some reason it is not possible for the same court to continue with the case, a differently constituted court may resume the hearing.

At present, if the same court cannot continue—for instance, if one of the justices has died or been taken ill—the new court has to hear the entire proceedings afresh. This may cause considerable delay and obvious distress to the parties concerned. The new clause contains three safeguards. The first is that the parties must consent to the reconstituted court continuing with the case. This was a provision which was suggested by the Magistrates' Association. I think it introduces an extremely valuable safeguard to the parties.

The second is that at least one justice on the reconstituted court should have been a member of the court which originally heard the case. This safeguard was asked for in another place and I think it is, in fact, a useful precaution.

Finally, the new clause contains a requirement that the court which resumes the hearing must, before it makes any order in the case, make such inquiries into the facts and circumstances as will allow the justices who were not members of the first court to be fully acquainted with the case.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, it is not really just a matter of a justice being taken ill or, unfortunately, dying. If you have a very busy petty sessional division, it is not by any means easy to assemble the same bench of justices because one of them may be sitting on another court somewhere else, or doing some other important business. So the alternative to having this is either to start again or to have a very long wait. In either case, I would have thought that, in these sorts of proceedings, it was undesirable to do that and that this was a very happy compromise. The noble Lord has described the three safeguards, which seem to me to meet any possible criticism, so I welcome this as a further improvement to the Bill.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 61 to 67.]

Clause 31, page 29, line 18, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 31, page 29, line 42, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 31, page 30, line 5, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 31, page 30, line 17, leave out 'or 6' and insert ', 6 or (Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'.

Clause 33, page 31, line 38, leave out 'regarding the custody of a minor'

Clause 33, page 32, line 5, at end insert— '(3) Any order made in respect of a minor under section 9(1), 10(1)(a) or 11(a) of this Act shall cease to have effect when the minor attains the age of eighteen.'

After Clause 35, insert the following new clause—

Access to minors by grandparents under Guardianship of Minors Act 1971

'. In the Guardianship of Minors Act 1971 the following heading and section shall be inserted after section 14:

"Access to minors by grandparents

14A.—(1) The court, on making an order under section 9(1) of this Act or at any time while such an order is in force, may on the application of a grandparent of the minor make such order requiring access to the minor to be given to the grandparent as the court thinks fit.

(2) Where one parent of a minor is dead, or both parents are dead, the court may, on an application made by a parent of a deceased parent of the minor, make such order requiring access to the minor to be given to the applicant as the court thinks fit.

(3) Section 11A(2) of this Act shall apply in relation to an order made under this section as it applies in relation to an order made under section 9(1), 10(1)(a), or 11(a) of this Act.

(4) The court shall not make an order under this section with respect to a minor who is for the purposes of Part II of the Children Act 1948 in the care of a local authority.

(5) Where the court has made an order under subsection (1) above requiring access to a minor to be given to a grandparent, the court may vary or discharge that order on an application made—

1. (a) by that grandparent, or
2. (b) by either parent of the minor, or
1662
3. (c) if the court has made an order under section 9(1)(a) of this Act giving the legal custody of the minor to a person other than one of the parents, that person.

(6) Where the court has made an order under subsection (2) above requiring access to a minor to be given to a grandparent, the court may vary or discharge that order on an application made—

1. (a) by that grandparent, or
2. (b) by any surviving parent of the minor, or
3. (c) by any guardian of the minor.

(7) Section 6 of the Guardianship Act 1973 shall apply in relation to an application under this section as it applies in relation to an application under section 5 or 9 of this Act, and any reference to a party to the proceedings in subsection (2) or (3) of the said section 6 shall include—

1. (a) in the case of an application under subsection (1) or (2) above, a reference to the grandparent who has made an application under either of those subsections,
2. (b) in the case of an application under subsection (5) or (6) above, a reference to the grandparent who has access to the minor under the order for the variation or discharge of which the application is made.

(8) Where, at any time after an order with respect to a minor has been made under subsection (1) above, no order is in force under section 9 of this Act with respect to that minor, the order made under subsection (1) above shall cease to have effect.

(9) A court may make an order under this section in favour of a grandparent of a minor notwithstanding that the minor is illegitimate."."

3.49 p.m.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 61 to 67 en bloc. These are consequential Amendments.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 68 and 69.] Clause 38, page 35, line 17, leave out 'the mother or father' and insert 'each parent' Clause 38, page 35, line 21, leave out 'the mother or father' and insert 'each parent'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 68 and 69. These Amendments make a small, technical improvement to the Bill.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[Nos. 70 and 71.] Clause 52, page 47, line 36, after '15' insert '(Access to children by grandparents), (powers of arrest for breach of s. 14 order)'. Clause 52, page 47, after "15" insert '(Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 70 and 71. These are consequential Amendments.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 72.] Clause 52, page 47, line 36, after '24' insert '25(1)(b), (c) and (cc), 25(2)'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 72 and, with the leave of the House, I should like to speak at the same time, to Amendment No. 72A. This Amendment is consequential on the Amendments to Clause 25.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, we cannot agree to Amendment No. 72, can we? We have to agree to Amendment No. 72A first and then to Amendment No. 72 as amended, because it is a technical matter that has been explained to me.

LORDS AMENDMENT TO

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 72.A] Leave out ("25(1)(b), (c) and (cc)").

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Lords Amendment No. 72A

Moved, That this House doth agree with the saidAmendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Amendment to the Motion agreed to.

On Question, Motion, as amended, agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 73 to 76.]

Clause 53, page 49, line 26, after '15' insert '(Access to children by grandparents), (Powers of arrest for breach of s. 14 order)'

Clause 53, page 49, after '15' insert '(Powers of court where parties are living apart by agreement)'

Clause 53, page 58, line 28, leave out 'child's mother or father' and insert 'mother, the father or a grandparent of the child'

Clause 53, page 59, line 22, at end insert— '(3A) An authorised court shall have power to make an order under subsection (1)(a) in favour of a grandparent of a child notwithstanding that the child is illegitimate.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 73 to 76 en bloc. These are consequential Amendments.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 77.]

Clause 59, page 59, line 40, at end insert— '(c) in section 4(2) of that Act the reference to section 6 of that Act shall be construed as including a reference to section 39 and 40 of this Act.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 77, and, with the leave of the House, I should like to speak at the same time to Amendments Nos. 94 and 95. These Amendments are purely technical. They transfer a provision out of Schedule 2 to the Bill into Clause 59.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 78 and 79.] Clause 74, page 70, line 38, after 'under' insert 'Part II of' Clause 74, page 70, after 'or' insert 'Part I of'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 78 and 79. These are technical Amendments relating to the proceedings defined as domestic.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 80.] After Clause 80, insert the following new clause:

Amendment of Administration of Justice Act 1964.

'.—(1) Section 2(3) of the Administration of Justice Act 1964 (which provides that, for the purposes of the law relating to justices of the peace, magistrates' courts and other matters therein mentioned, a London commission area shall be deemed to be a county) shall have effect, and shall be deemed to have had effect as from 1st April 1974, as if—

1. (a) after the words "magistrates' courts" there were inserted the words "magistrates' courts committees";
2. (b) before the word "county", where it first occurs, there were inserted the words "non-metropolitan"; and
3. (c) after the words "passing of this Act" there were inserted the words "and references to a non-metropolitan county in any enactment or instrument as amended or modified by or under the Local Government Act 1972".

(2) Section 2(3A) of the said Act of 1964 (which provides that for the purposes of the law relating to magistrates' courts committees a London commission area shall be deemed to be a non-metropolitan county) shall cease to have effect.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 80 and, with the leave of the House, I should like to speak at the same time to Amendments Nos. 83, 84, 84A, 84B, 99 and 101.

These Amendments remedy a technical defect in existing magistrates' court legislation which arose in consequence of changes in definition made in paragraph 13 of Schedule 27 of the Local Government Act 1972, which amended Section 44(1) of the Justices of the Peace Act 1949. That Act changed the definition of the term, "petty sessions area" in a way which inadvertently excluded petty sessional divisions in Greater London because it referred to non-metropolitan counties and metropolitan districts but not to London Commission areas. This defect needs to be remedied before consolidation, and the present Bill provides a good opportunity to do it. The method adopted is to amend the Administration of Justice Act 1964 since that contains the main provisions relating to the administration of justice in the Greater London area.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, we seem to have got on surprisingly well for about 15 years without anybody spotting this, but I am sure it is a good idea to put it right now that someone has spotted it.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 81 to 82.] Clause 89, page 77, line 23, after 'county),' insert 'of' Clause 89, page 77, line 23, after 'district' insert 'or of'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 81 and 82. These are drafting Amendments.

Moved, that the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 83.] Clause 82, page 77, line 31, leave out 'and'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments No. 83. This is a consequential Amendment.

Moved, that the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 84.] Clause 82, page 77, line 32, at end insert 'a London commission area which is not divided into petty sessional divisions and a petty sessional division of a London commission area;'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 84.

Moved, that the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

LORDS AMENDMENTS TO COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 84A and 84B] Line 2, leave out ("and") Line 3, at end insert ("and in the City of London").

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with Amendments Nos. 84A and 84B.

Moved, that the House doth agree with the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

On Question, Amendment No. 84, as amended, agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 85 to 91.]

Clause 84, page 78, line 39, leave out '27(4),'

Clause 84, page 78, line 41, after '1' insert '11A,'

Clause 84, page 79, line 2, leave out '27(4),'

Clause 84, page 79, line 4, after 'paragraphs' insert '11A,'

Clause 84, page 80, line 20, leave out 'and'

Clause 84, page 80, line 28, at end insert— '(c) where the order contains a provision for the legal custody of a child, the court shall have power, on a complaint made by a grandparent of the child, to vary that order under the said section 8 by the addition to the order of a provision requiring access to the child to be given to that grandparent;

(b) where the court, by virtue of paragraph (c) above, varies the order by the addition of a provision requiring access to a child to be given to a grandparent, the court shall have power to vary or revoke that provision on a complaint made—

1. (i) by that grandparent, or
2. (ii) by either party to the marriage in question, or
3. (iii) where the child is not a child of both the parties to the marriage, by any person who though not a party to the marriage is a parent of the child, or
4. (iv) where under the order a child is for the time being committed to the legal custody of some person other than one of the parents or a party to the marriage, by the person to whose legal 1668 custody the child is committed by the order.'

Schedule 2, page 82, line 38, at end insert— '11A. In section 15(1)(a) of that Act for sub-paragraph (ii) there shall be substituted the following sub-paragraph— (ii) section 21(1) and 27(3) of the Domestic Proceedings and Magistrates' Courts Act 1978".'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 85 to 91.

Moved, that the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 92.]

Schedule 2, page 85, line 15, at end insert— '28A. In section 14(3) of that Act for the words "and 10" there shall be substituted the words "10 and 14A(5) and (6)". 28B. In section 16(5) of that Act after the words "magistrates' court under" there shall be inserted the words "section 14A of this Act regarding access to a minor by a grandparent or under".'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 92. This is a consequential Amendment.

Moved, That the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 93.]

Schedule 2, page 87, line 14, at end insert— '39A. In section 4(6) of that Act for the words "£10" there shall be substituted the words "£50".'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 93. This is a consequential Amendment. The Bill provides that, in Clauses 9 and 28, where a person is liable to pay maintenance under a maintenance order, he shall notify the court of any change of his address. At the suggestion of the noble Baroness, Lady Macleod of Borve, Amendments were introduced in this House to raise the penalty for failure to comply with this requirement, from a maximum under existing law of £10 to a new maximum of £50. At the same time a number of corresponding penalties in guardianship and other legislation were similarly increased from £10 to £50 by Schedule 2. However, we inadvertently overlooked one of the penalties which is in Section 4(6) of the Guardianship Act 1973. The Amendment therefore raises the penalty in that case to £50 to correspond with the other increases already provided for in the Bill. I beg to move.

Moved, That, the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, I am sure my noble friend Lady Macleod of Borve, would wish to say thank you for this because it brings the whole thing together. I have a feeling that the noble Baroness has had some sort of accident. We very much hope that this will not keep her away from the House for any length of time and that she will have a very quick recovery. Anyway, as my noble friend cannot be here may I thank the Government on her behalf.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

I am sure we all want to join the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross, in expressing the hope that the noble Baroness will soon be recovered and back among us.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS

[Nos. 94 and 95.] Schedule 2, page 87, leave out lines 31 to 35. Schedule 2, page 87, line 36, leave out 'that Act' and insert 'the Children Act 1975'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 94 and 95. These are consequential Amendments.

Moved, That the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 96.]

Schedule 2, page 87, line 41, at end insert— '44A. In section 46(3) of that Act—

1. (a) in paragraph (a) for the word "payments" there shall be substituted the words "periodical payments or pay a lump sum";
2. (b) in paragraph (b) after the words "to make" there shall be inserted the word "periodical".'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 96. This is a drafting Amendment.

Moved, That the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 97,]

Schedule 2, page 88, line 12, at end insert—

'The Domestic Violence and Matrimonial Proceedings Act 1976 (c. 50)

48A. In section 2 of the Domestic Violence and Matrimonial Proceedings Act 1976 at the end of subsection (4) there shall be inserted:— In reckoning for the purposes of this subsection any period of 24 hours, no account shall be taken of Christmas Day, Good Friday or any Sunday".'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 97. This Amendment is con-sequential upon the new clause after Clause 15, to which the House has agreed, and which enables magistrates' courts to attach a power of arrest for breach of an order under Clause 14.

Moved, That the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 98.]

Schedule 3, page 89, line 4, at end insert—

'1961 c. 39.

The Criminal Justice Act 1961.

In Schedule 4, the entry relating to section 54 of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1952.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 98. This is a minor technical Amendment.

Moved, That the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 99.] Schedule 3, page 89, line 5, column 3, at beginning insert ' in section 2, subsection (3A)'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 99. This is a consequential Amendment.

Moved, That the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 100.] Schedule 3, page 90, line 2, column 3, at beginning insert 'In section 2, in subsection (5) the words from "but an interim order" to the end of the subsection.'

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 100. This is a technical Amendment which ensures that the repeal in Clause 40(3) of part of the Guardisnship Act 1973 appears in the List of Enactments repealed in Schedule 3.

Moved, That the House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

COMMONS AMENDMENT

[No. 101.] In the Title, line 8, after '1952' insert 'to amend section 2 of the Administration of Justice Act 1964'.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 101. This is a consequential Amendment.

Moved, That the House cloth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Harris of Greenwich.)

Viscount COLVILLE of CULROSS

My Lords, may I simply say this to the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Greenwich: all those of us who are here, particularly those for subsequent business, are especially grateful to the noble Lord, and so, I am sure, are the staff, for the efficiency with which he has got through 101 Amendments in a period of about a quarter of an hour. If it is not presumptious to say so, I join in congratulating the noble Lord the Chairman of Committees for his part in this.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Bill returned to the Commons.