§ Viscount MOUNTGARRETMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps are being taken to utilise for residential development, waste land and derelict houses in urban areas, some of which have remained vacant since war-time bombing; and what is the total acreage involved.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Baroness Birk)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government's initiatives are aimed primarily at the inner city partnership areas where the problem is most serious. Each partnership is conducting a general review of its land problems. The nationalised industries are currently carrying out surveys of their land holdings to determine which sites could be either released for development or put to temporary use. It is, however, for the partnership authorities to decide the appropriate uses for sites, and not all sites are suitable for residential use. The recent extension of derelict land clearance areas to the West Midlands and London docklands will also help to tackle the problem of waste land, as indeed will the Inner Urban Areas Bill. A figure for total acreage is not available.
§ Viscount MOUNTGARRETMy Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for that reply, may I ask her whether the Government are aware that some 40,000 to 50,000 acres of land are required each 1060 year for housing? Would it not be far better to try to utilise first the many areas now existing that are either derelict or are serving no useful purpose, rather than continually to expand, encroaching upon good agricultural land, or to enlarge country villages to the extent that the character of them is diminished?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, there really is no simple, uniform solution to this. Local authorities have been asked to look very carefully at each vacant site to determine whether it can be brought into housing use within the planning framework. So far as agricultural land is concerned, again it varies from place to place. There are farmers who wish to sell some of their land for development purposes.
§ Lord DAVIES of LEEKMy Lords, while I endorse the plea of the noble Viscount for a minimisation of the use of agricultural land, may I ask whether my noble friend is aware that, in some of the derelict areas, like the mining areas and salt mining areas, an injudicious use of derelict land might lead the local authorities into greater expense, as has occurred already in the city of Stoke-on-Trent, where modern buildings have been put on mining subsidence land and have cost the ratepayer many thousands of pounds more than if no buildings had been put there at all?
§ Baroness BIRKYes, my Lords, this is perfectly true. This is why I have stressed that there is no single, uniform solution. In addition we have to look at the need to improve access to existing stocks. There is still room for improvement in the repair and rehabilitation of dilapidated dwellings, which, if properly treated, could provide lasting homes. There is a whole range of options which have to be taken up, and not just one or another.
§ Lord SANDYSMy Lords, among the range of options, have the Government considered the necessity to make it incumbent upon local authorities and statutory bodies to declare annually the amounts of derelict, despoiled and otherwise unused land available for housing and other purposes?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, if the noble Lord is referring to a registry of land, my 1061 right honourable friend the Secretary of State, in reply to a Question on 10th May, said that he did not intend at the present time to compel local authorities to publish registers. He went on to say:
My immediate aim is to concentrate efforts to identify and secure early development of unused land in those areas where the problem of derelict and waste land is most serious".—[Official Report, Commons, 10/5/78; col. 1158.]Quite frankly, we are more concerned that the land should be located and put to constructive use, rather than that local authorities should spend their time and money making lists which may not be very useful at the end of the day.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, is the Minister not aware that in times of financial stringency dual carriageway schemes will use up extra agricultural land because the authorities cannot afford to straighten out the old wiggly bits? This may sound a slightly flippant remark. But is not the noble Baroness also aware that the Rothschild report, the Think Tank, pointed out that we were using 75,000 acres of good agricultural land each year? That land, which could be used for the benefit of feeding our people, is permanently lost.
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, I think that I have already covered that point. Without developing the debate into one on transport, may I say that transport is also part of the infrastructure which has to be considered in trying to make good use, residential and industrial use, of waste land. It is really not as simple as the noble Earl has indicated.
§ Lord GAINFORDMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that local authorities go into this business very considerably in pre-acquisition, where sites such as my noble friend was asking about are very carefully considered? Is she aware that the history of the sites, what lies around them and particularly under them, is carefully examined before purchase. I ask this question because I was involved in such work myself when I was working in County Hall.
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord very much for his intervention, which is a great help.