§ 3 p.m.
The Earl of HALSBURYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what action they will take to set up an inquiry into the safety of fast nuclear reactors.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, the Government have undertaken that any proposal to build a commercial demonstration fast reactor will be subject to a public inquiry. The inquiry would not be limited to local planning matters; but would allow wider relevant issues to be examined. The Government are considering what might be the most appropriate arrangements for such an inquiry in the event of a proposal being made.
The Earl of HALSBURYMy Lords, while thanking the Minister for that Answer to another Question, may I ask him whether he would answer the Question I asked, which is when and what action they will take?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, the Government expect the nuclear organisations to put forward in due course considered proposals for the construction of a commercial-scale demonstration fast reactor. When these have been received we will be in a better position to decide on the timing of any inquiry.
§ Lord WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, do Her Majesty's Government intend to 780 wait until there is some declaration made by the European Economic Community before making any Statement with regard to the nuclear reactor? There have been, as I have no doubt my noble friend has observed, statements in the papers to the effect that the European Community is looking into the matter. Does that mean that we wait for their decision?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, I am sure that is a factor which will be taken into account by the nuclear organisations.
§ Lord SKELMERSDALEMy Lords, could the noble Lord elucidate on his phrase "commercial demonstration nuclear reactor"? To me, those are two completely different things. Does the noble Lord mean a commercial, and therefore usable, reactor, or does he mean a demonstration, in other words a trial, reactor of a commercial size?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, I would recommend the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, to look up the glossary behind the energy Green Paper, which is dated last February and is in your Lordships' Library, where he will see an explanation of the term.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEBut, my Lords, if the noble Lord has it so readily in his mind, could he not tell the House what it is? Because there may be a queue in the Library as a result of his answer to that supplementary question.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, I took the opportunity to arm myself with a photostat of the glossary, and I will read this out to the House:
A fast reactor is a type of fission reactor in which neutrons resulting from fission are not deliberately slowed down. The main types of fast reactor at present under development are designed to use plutonium as a fuel, at the same time breeding plutonium from depleted uranium at a faster rate than it is consumed.I may say that this is a very serious and important subject; and, of course, the Green Paper concluded:We need to ensure that fast reactor technology will be available to us when we need it in a proven and acceptable form, and it will be necessary for Ministers to consider how best this will be achieved.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, while I am sure the House is very interested in what the noble Lord has just told us, it was not an answer to the question put by my noble friend, who wanted to know the exact meaning of a commercial demonstration reactor. Whatever else was the definition given by the noble Lord, it was not a definition of that.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, if the noble and learned Lord would be good enough to look up the glossary under "thermal reactor", he will then see a description of a thermal reactor—
§ Lord STRABOLGI—and then a reference indicating that he should look up "fast reactor", where he will be given an explanation.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I know perfectly well what a thermal reactor is, and perfectly well what a fast reactor is? The question is: What is a commercial demonstration reactor, to which he referred in his original Answer? We cannot be put off by definitions of different things, because we can actually hear; and if the noble Lord thinks that I do not know the elements of nuclear physics, he is wrong.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, a commercial reactor of this kind is one that, if it is developed—and there is an experimental one at Dounreay at the moment—will be able to put nuclear energy to commercial uses. It is as simple as that.
§ Viscount THURSOMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the prototype fast reactor now operating at Dounreay is putting quantities of electricity into the grid, and that in fact it lights my house every day—or, perhaps, every night; and every day in the winter-time? Is he further aware that the system which is employed was described in your Lordships' House not very long ago in a debate on nuclear energy by the noble Lord, Lord Hinton of Bankside, as being inherently safe; and that in that debate we were pressing Her Majesty's Government to produce the commercial 782 size demonstration reactor, which will work by the same means as the prototype but on a commercial scale?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, these are all factors which will be taken into account, but we have not yet had the proposals from the nuclear organisations. When we have those, we shall then consider what inquiry to set up. These are all matters for an inquiry.
§ Lord BYERSMy Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that my noble friend gave a far better answer than he did?
The Earl of HALSBURYMy Lords, to bring this matter to a conclusion, would the noble Lord give an undertaking that he will ensure that the other side of the business, in whose court the ball apparently now rests, is aware that the next move is up to them?
§ Lord STRABOLGIYes, my Lords,