§ 2.44 p.m
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have any plans to raise payments for homworkers.
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYNo, my Lords. The pay of a homeworkers is a matter for agreement between the workers and the employer or their respective representatives, as it is for any other worker, except that where the employment is in scope of a wages council 147 the minimum rate is laid down in the relevant wages order and is enforceable by the Wages Inspectorate of the Department of Employment. In either case the Government have no power to intervene in the wages-fixing process. However, the Government are aware of and are very concerned about allegations of exploitation of homeworkers, and on 5th July announced measures designed to strengthen the existing protection and to keep under review what further action may be needed.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that nearly 70 years ago I campaigned on behalf of the half-starved homeworkers in poverty Pentonville, and took a little part, with Mary MacArthur, in securing the establishment of wages councils? Does he therefore understand how shocked I am by the report of the Low Pay Unit that half of the 250,000 homeworkers earn less than 40p an hour and nearly one-fifth of them earn only lop an hour for a 50-hour working week? Cannot the Government make wage councils compulsory for all homeworkers and register them so that they may have the same protection as other employees?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, the question of separate wage councils for homeworkers is not entirely ruled out. It is possible that the advisory committee will eventually develop into such a body, but for the present it has been decided not to establish a separate council or to follow the practice of other EEC countries in setting statutory minimum rates for all types of homework. I think it would be advisable, in view of the remarks of my noble friend and for the interest of the House, that I repeat part of the Statement made by Mr. John Grant in another place on 5th July. He said:
I intend to establish a homeworking unit within the Wages Inspectorate, which will be strengthened for this purpose. In each division of the Inspectorate an inspector will be designated to concentrate on the inspection of homeworkers' pay and generally act as a focul point of interest in the subject so far as pay is concerned. The Inspectorate will also be mounting a special drive on inspecting the pay of homeworkers in selected areas during the summer and autumn.…Finally, I propose to use the powers of Section 95 of the Employment Protection Act to obtain information from employers covered by wages councils about the homeworkers they employ". — [Official Report; (Commons),5/7/78, cols. 186/7.]
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, in this matter of Government intervention and in support of my noble friend Lord Brockway, may I ask my noble friend on the Front Bench this question: If it is no longer on the Statute Book, could we not revive the Trade Boards Act, which was introduced by the late Winston Churchill in 1909 when he was President of the Board of Trade and which was intended to protect the interests of home-workers and those in the sweated trades? Is my noble friend aware that I was also associated with Mary MacArthur, J. J. Mallen and others? I was appointed by Winston Churchill as the representative of the Scottish workers on that trade board and was a member for two years. Why did we depart from Government intervention then?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, I am well aware of the tremendous amount of work done in the past by both my noble friends; there is no argument about that whatever. But my noble friends and the House must understand that there is to be a determined drive by the Government to root out any question of gross underpayment of home-workers. But I would warn the House to make a distinction between rates of pay for homeworkers and earnings, because it is conceivable that where illness and other handicaps persist some workers are not capable of earning so much as others at similar rates of pay.
Lord ORAMMy Lords, is not the essence of this problem that from the very nature of this kind of employment it is nearly impossible to organise the workers into trade unions? Would my noble friend urge upon his right honourable friend that he should consult with the TUC on this aspect of the problem?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYYes, my Lords, I shall certainly do as my noble friend suggests. There is already contact with the TUC, the CBI and other organisations, but whether it need he strengthened is a matter that the Government will have to establish.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the figures which I gave were for rates of pay per hour and not for earnings over a week? Will he reply to my suggestion that homeworkers 149 should be registered so that they may have the same protection as other employees?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, yes, I will certainly put that suggestion forward. It is on record that we have had a considerable number of examinations of workers' pay. In 1977, for instance, there were 150,452 workers whose wages were examined. Therefore there is considerable inspection and checking going on. As I have already announced to the House, there is an intensive drive to try to solve the problem. Where there are loopholes they must be stopped.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, if there is a question of registering the homeworker, should we not also register the housewife who, after all, is one of our biggest homeworkers?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, I could not agree more that the housewife undergoes a seven-day week, at unlimited rates of pay, with no overtime and, I am sorry to say, in some cases with no thanks.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, will the noble Lord clear a matter up about the definition of "homeworker"? I had understood that a homeworker was somebody who did contract work inside his or her own home and not a household help who does some of the housewife's home work in somebody else's home. Will the noble Lord clarify what we are talking about?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, yes. This is a case of workers working under contract with an employer who puts out work to these people. There is quite a variety. I shall not weary the House by reading out the considerable number of variations and types of home work. There are sections which are covered by agreements and some sections which are not.