§ 3.20 p.m.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
1696§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to adopt the three-day week.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, I should like to thank my noble friend for that Answer. But does he recall that the three-day week was largely inevitable because of confrontation by the Government led by Mr. Heath with a section of the trade union movement? Now that Mr. Heath—against whom I am far from imputing sinister motives, but who is inclined to be rather inflexible and has fixed ideas—has made peace with Mrs. Thatcher, he might in co-operation with her seek to introduce legislation of a similar kind if there should be an electoral misfortune in the country, and I should like to know whether we have any safe-guards against a disaster of that kind?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, far from trying to assist this recently arranged love affair, I would say that the only safeguard we have is to make sure that that lot do not get back again.
§ Lord ROCHESTERMy Lords, on a somewhat more serious note, will the noble Lord agree that, since all past experience has shown that when there are reductions in the length of the normal working week overtime is not reduced, it accordingly follows that if inflation, productivity and, in the long run, employment prospects are not to get even worse, trade unions should be prepared to accept corresponding reductions in hourly rates of pay?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, this is a very complicated subject, as the noble Lord knows only too well from his great experience. It is a subject which we are carefully studying. A cut in working hours which really created new jobs would be worth considering, and of course the wage question would have to be taken into account. We must have regard to the effect on costs, otherwise more jobs might be lost than created. Reductions in overtime from the present high level might be a first priority.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, recently it has been alleged that with a three-day 1697 week we can produce as much as in a full working week, and even more. So can my noble friend explain why the Conservative Government did not continue with the operation?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, conceivably there were other reasons why they did not do so. Immediately following the three-day week and the problems we had, the Government of that day ran away and left us with a legacy of inflation of 15 per cent., rapidly rising, and the biggest trade deficit left by any Government to another.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, does not the answer lie in the fact that the Labour Party came into Government, brought back the five-day week, and still produced as little as had been produced in the three-day week?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, I am sorry to have to cross swords with the noble Baroness, but, comparing like with like, the total output as measured by real gross domestic product today is higher than it was in the first quarter of 1974 by about 5 per cent.
§ Viscount MASSEREENE and FERRARDMy Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that a three-day week in agriculture would be absolutely farcical because one would have to have double staff and double housing? Livestock has to be looked after daily, apart from the vagaries of the weather. With due respect to the noble Lord, I think it is a most silly question.
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, I would not disagree with the noble Viscount. It might be that the farmer's wife who works a seven-day week without trade union recognition would probably have to fill in the other days for him.
Lord HAWKEMy Lords, is it not true that we are so desperately short of skilled labour in almost every industry in the country that we could not possibly afford to have people working only three days a week?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, the problem of shortage of skilled 1698 labour is with us, and we are doing our best to train skilled labour. We accept that there is a shortage and we must get more skilled labour into industry in order to increase our output.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, is it the intention of the Government to introduce a three-day week in this House?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, I cannot take account of the hopeful desires of my noble friend, who apparently requires a rest. That position rests with other channels and with my immediate chief, who is sitting too close to me for comfort.