§ 2.58 p.m.
§ Lord TANLAWMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will accept a recommendation of the National Electronics Council to improve public communications by allowing individuals access to the radio spectrum for A to B communication.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLNo, my Lords. We have given careful consideration to the report of the National Electronics Council on citizens band radio, but remain of the view that the advantages of introducing such a service would be outweighed by the disadvantages.
§ Lord TANLAWMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Minister for his reply. Has he conveniently overlooked the simple matter of physics, which is that the radio spectrum ignores all national boundaries and is governed only by the law of nature? If the noble Lord recognises this scientific fact, can he justify his reply, when there is no legal or constitutional basis for any nation State to claim a part or the whole of the magnetosphere, or to prevent an individual from having access to it? Will he then say why the United Kingdom is one of the few democracies outside the Communist 1439 bloc that has not allocated a frequency over which members of the public can communicate freely with one another? Finally, will he now confirm that it is still his Government's intention, as a matter of policy, not to provide the British public with a citizens band frequency?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, as I understand the position, it is the view of the Government not to provide citizens band radio for a whole variety of reasons, which, if I may say so with great respect, are far too many to go into at Question Time. The Government have taken advice and have looked at what has happened in other countries. There are many competing demands by the necessary users of radio, by mobile radio and by commercial industrial firms. There is also widespread evidence of abuse and misuse in countries that have this. Then there is the fact that it is almost impossible to effect control. If the noble Lord has read the issue of Radio Communication for July 1978, he will have seen that it includes an editorial from the March issue of Electronics Australia, in which these words appeared,
Listen on the citizens band channels in almost any of our larger cities and you will discover what I mean by going on criticising it. You will hear everything from school kids swopping dirty yarns, to planning gang escapades, to prostitutes touting for business and, in the daily papers"—it really is not funny, my Lords—stories of the abuse of citizens band radio are becoming more frequent. It seems possible that citizens band may even have played a key role in a recent murder".The editorial goes on to say:In short, citizen band radio is becoming notorious, so much so that there is a growing backlash and many people are seriously suggesting that the authorities should reverse last year's decision and try to suppress it altogether".America is experiencing this, and so also are other countries. We see no reason to introduce the possibility of that kind of thing here.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that his answer will cause considerable disappointment? Is he further aware that it is possible to regulate the citizens band perfectly well and that this is done in many countries outside the United States, which I believe is the only country where there is unfettered use of the band? Is the noble Lord also 1440 aware that if a citizens band were to be introduced here it would bring forth a splendid industry to manufacture all the equipment for it, to the general advantage of all concerned?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, we would not accept what the noble Lord first said: that this can be controlled. It might be controlled in some measure but not in a satisfactory measure. I do not think one could argue—at least I hope we would not argue—that in order to produce an industry we should saddle ourselves with something that is very unacceptable.
§ Lord HAMNETTMy Lords, is the Minister aware of the conversational devastation caused in America on long-distance lorries by citizens radio?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I could have given your Lordships a number of examples which would have justified the Government's action. I did not do so because this is merely a Question. However, I agree with what my noble friend has said.
§ Lord TANLAWMy Lords, is the noble Lord prepared to say that the examples which he gave do not take place over the telephone system?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I do not think that the two are to be compared. I do not suggest that no improper conversations take place over telephones, but they take place between two people and are not necessarily heard by a large number of people.
§ Lord TORPHICHENMy Lords, has the noble Lord considered the ill-effects on other alternative services of not allocating such a band? For instance, does the noble Lord think that it is wise that casual, would-be users of radio communications should be forced to use either the already overloaded Post Office radio telephone network or, worse, to misuse the amateur frequencies?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I tried to make it perfectly clear at the beginning that the Government have to make a choice as to whether this is desirable or undesirable. They have studied very carefully citizens band radio 1441 in other countries and have come to the conclusion that the advantages are more than outweighed by the disadvantages.