§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a Statement on the further steps which have been taken by them and other civilised nations to deal with terrorism and hijacking and in particular whether there has been any advance in refusing aid to nations training or harbouring terrorists and hijackers and whether they will ensure that the PLO and other terrorist bodies will not be given observer status at the ICAO.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, as I told my noble friend on 6th June, the Government are co-operating with like-minded States against all forms of terrorism and hijacking. Aid has not been refused to any countries on the grounds my noble friend mentions. In response to the last part of my noble friend's Question, it is of course for the Member States of the ICAO to decide who should be given observer status. At their last meeting they decided by 74 votes in favour, 3 against and 33 abstentions to allow PLO participation as observers.
Lord JANNERBut, my Lords, may I say that I appreciate such steps as are being taken in respect of the terrorism which is being spread through that vicious organisation, the PLO? The PLO not only has within its own ranks some of the most terrible arrangements for training 1162 people to commit these acts but is also co-operating with other such groups—and, incidentally, one understands that even terrorists against Britain are involved. But does my noble friend not realise that it is absurd to attempt to stop terrorism throughout the world if these vicious gangsters are being accepted as observers at, of all places, the organisations which exist for the suppression of hijacking, thus giving them support at a time when they are being trained and actually utilised against air traffic in so many different ways? Will he please see to it that that position is remedied?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I will indeed examine with great care everything that my noble friend has said. I am in general agreement with him, as he knows. As to the position of the ICAO, there is an argument that it may be more expeditious to have contact in this way with certain elements than not to be in any kind of contact with them. However, the Government share with my noble friend a true concern about the situation, and, with our friends and partners in the Nine and outside the Nine, are currently engaged in pressing forward with practical steps to strengthen the defences against terrorism and hijacking.
§ Lord DUNCAN-SANDYSMy Lords, without wishing to concern myself with any particular terrorist organisation, may I ask the Minister whether he recognises that it would seem that Government action against hijacking is not proving effective because there are so many exceptions in particular areas, and whether the Government would consider giving some encouragement and support to the airline pilots to take action on their own, which would certainly be most effective?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am of course aware of certain suggestions by the Airline Pilots' Association. I think we have all looked at this and have agreed that it is very important to consider the implications of some of the more drastic solutions proposed by some members of that Association. However, we are in close touch with them, and are continuously canvassing new possibilities. On the first part of the question—which, if I may say so, was most apposite— 1163 we are, above all, pressing all countries to adhere to the three major conventions. The noble Lord is quite right: there are gaps in membership of those adhering to The Hague, Tokyo and Montreal Conventions, and as a very first step this country is pressing very hard indeed to get a full 100 per cent. membership of those conventions.
Lord JANNERMy Lords, would my noble friend appreciate one point? It is absurd to have members of a criminal organisation, the PLO, as observers at the ICAO, which is attempting to stop the killing of people irrespective of who they are or of their nationality. By having these observers there, they will be able to counteract any action which is taken. In view of the fact that British views are still respected, and very highly respected in certain circles, is it not important that we should not have abstained but voted against the introduction of such people as observers?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, as my noble friend implied in his second supplementary, we were not among those who voted for this. As a general principle, we are opposed to the membership of such organisations, even in an observer capacity. However, we have to weigh very carefully what the results of continued and possibly abrasive opposition against a very large majority on a specialised body like this, and indeed in the UN, could be. On balance, I think this country has acted sensibly; and we will continue to use whatever opportunity there is in those bodies to fight terrorism and hijacking. I repeat that there is an argument for being in contact with certain of these organisations, not the whole membership of which is devoted irredeemably to direct action.