HL Deb 05 July 1978 vol 394 cc985-6

2.54 p.m.

Lord THOMAS

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what are their plans on the nationalisation of British Caledonian Airways as set out in Labour's Programme 1976 and endorsed by the Labour Party's Annual Conference.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the policy of Her Majesty's Government is set out in the White Paper, Future Civil Aviation Policy, presented to Parliament on 11th February, 1976. It does not include plans for the nationalisation of British Caledonian Airways.

Lord THOMAS

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask whether he would agree that in the Labour Programme dated 1975—and I quote from page 77—it says: In our view the most sensible course of action would be to take British Caledonian into public ownership"?

Lord WINTERBOTTONI

My Lords, if the noble Lord could tell me and my noble friends who in the Conservative Party is drafting the Labour Party Manifesto it would be of great help to us.

Lord BOYD-CARPENTER

My Lords, does the noble Lord appreciate that among people outside who are insufficiently sophisticated to distinguish between the Labour Party and the Government, there can be a good deal of uncertainty and unhappiness caused by the publication of what are regarded as threats of this kind; and that this is particularly so in respect of the staff of this highly-efficient and competitive airline? Can he find some way of reassuring them that the Labour Party Conference was talking nonsense on this occasion?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, so far as I know, the Labour Party Conference has not talked about this at all. The statement that I have made is definitive.

Lord CLIFFORD of CHUDLEIGH

My Lords, is it not a fact that BOAC was running the South American route at a loss; and that they then handed that run over to British Caledonian who, within two years, were making a colossal profit?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, that is very much a different Question.

Lord LEE of NEWTON

My Lords, would my noble friend agree that the nationalisation of Rolls-Royce has been an outstanding success? Would he not therefore take the advice of the eminent nationalisers on the opposite side of the House?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, speaking personally, I believe that any system can be made to work if people want it to work—and people wanted Rolls-Royce to work.

Lord GLENKINGLAS

My Lords, does the noble Lord not agree—and I am delighted to hear that the Government have no intention of nationalising British Caledonian—that those of us who have to travel regularly from London to Scotland have found an enormous improvement in the service while there were the two different lines operating?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I believe in competition between nationally-owned and privately-owned services. May the best man win!