§ 2.48 p.m.
§ Baroness MASHAM of ILTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many new and reconditioned three-wheeler vehicles adapted for disabled people are being put into storage by the Department of Health and Social Security and what they intend to do with them.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the Answer is some 500 vehicles, which will be issued as replacements as required. My honourable friend the Minister for the Disabled has given a commitment that vehicles will be replaced, as they wear out, up to at least 1982, and possibly 1983. While production will soon cease, building up an adequate stock of three-wheelers is essential if Her Majesty's Government are to honour the commitment made by my honourable friend.
§ Baroness MASHAM of ILTONMy Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he knows that there are several hundred 154 brand new vehicles rusting in the snow in York at the moment, and that there are many 16-year-old disabled school-leavers who were able to use three-wheelers but who are now, completely, prisoners in their own houses and cannot get out to look for a job? Could he make any of these vehicles available to these 16-yearolds?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, in reply to the last question, the answer is, no. In reply to whether I know that there are several hundreds rusting in Yorkshire, this is news to me and it is news to my Department. I should want some evidence of that, and I hope the noble Baroness will supply it. It is perfectly true that there are something like 2,000 vehicles with approved repairers all over the country. Noble Lords may know that, when a three-wheeler breaks down, the owner can take it to an approved repairer to be repaired. At the premises of these approved repairers it is necessary to have a stock of three-wheelers, so that while one is being repaired the recipient has another in which to drive around. Over the whole country there are something like 2,000 with approved repairers. We shall be keeping in the Property Services Agency buildings another 500, of which 250 are new and 250 have been repaired and are fit for the road. This is a necessary number so that we can cope with the demand for them from time to time when vehicles are undergoing repair.
§ Lord SANDYSMy Lords, arising out of the Minister's original reply on the closure of the production line, could he tell us whether there will be a spare capacity and also whether there will be a loss of jobs resulting from this closure?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, this is a matter to which we have given great attention. I can safely say that while three-wheelers are in use, which will be for several years to come, we do not envisage having any difficulty at all about spare parts. There have been some difficulties; but, if I may say so, there have been difficulties in getting spare parts for almost everything and anything. We do not envisage any great difficulty and therefore feel we shall be able properly to maintain these three-wheelers.
155 The noble Lord asked about the firms engaged in this field. They have known the situation for some considerable time, and have tried to diversify their functions and to take on other work. So far as Invacar Ltd. is concerned, I understand that it has issued to date something like 58 redundancy notices to workers. AC cars will have to make some workers redundant, but the extent will depend largely on the additional work they hope to get in the next few months.
Lord WINSTANLEYMy Lords, will the noble Lord bear in mind that, while these invalid tricycles are unsatisfactory in many respects, they have nevertheless proved totally satisfactory for a small number of handicapped people who would be unable, if not unwilling, to drive anything else? Is he aware that many of these handicapped people have felt intensely bereaved at the prospect of losing their tricycles? Will the noble Lord take every step to make sure that this reprieve to 1982 or even 1983 is brought to the notice of all those people who are now worried about the prospect of losing their tricycles?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord. It is true that we on this side of the House have from time to time said that we did not accept that three-wheelers were such dangerous vehicles as a large number of noble Lords in this House have indicated. At one period pressure was put upon us to withdraw this vehicle. In fact, as the noble Lord has said, it serves a useful purpose. My honourable friend—and I should like to repeat this—on 26th April 1977 in another place, said that existing trike holders' interests are being carefully protected by the Government. He said:
I shall stand by … the commitment that we shall not allow people who need a vehicle to find themselves immobilised because we have not been able to provide one.—[Official Report, Commons, 26/4/77; col. 1063.]We are taking steps to see that vehicle holders know that we hope to be able to continue them until 1983.
§ Baroness MASHAM of ILTONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there are 350 spina bifida newly-disabled people with no vehicle at all, and also many other disabled people who have 156 become disabled since the Government did not supply further? Do the Government intend to give disabled people another, more suitable vehicle to make them independent?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the noble Baroness knows better than anyone else, since she is a member of the Goodman Committee, that the Government have said that they will consider what can be done in this matter of providing another vehicle for that small number of disabled people who will need it. We are looking at this question and taking advice from our colleagues in the EEC. I must point out that when the policy changed on 1st January 1976 we said that we should have to stop issuing three-wheelers—we were under some pressure to do so—and we would therefore give mobility allowances only. This did not affect those who had a trike prior to 1st January 1976. We were faced with providing three-wheelers for disabled people who needed them to get about and to go to work, or with providing a system which would include disabled people who could not drive. By changing the policy, it may be that there are some people who could use a trike but will not have one. This has become necessary in order to apply mobility allowances over a much wider field of people.
Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTONMy Lords, could the noble Lord tell us whether the Government have in mind the situation of the school-leavers in circumstances in which it is difficult to find jobs for those who are sound? Will not disabled school-leavers have very little prospect of finding jobs at all unless they can be made mobile?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, school-leavers today are 16 years of age. If they had four-wheeled vehicles they could not drive them because in this country they are not allowed to do so until they are 17 years of age. They are entitled to mobility allowances at the age of 16; so that from 16 to 17 years of age they will be getting, come next July, £10 a week to help them overcome that difficulty.