HL Deb 16 February 1978 vol 388 cc1530-2

4.6 p.m.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.

Moved, that the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Jacques.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The Lord Aberdare in the Chair.]

Clause 1 [Raising of maximum deposit.]

Lord JACQUES moved Amendment No. 1: Page 1, line 9, leave out ("twenty") and insert ("ten").

The noble Lord said: At the Second Reading I explained that, following the introduction of the Bill, there had been discussions with the Treasury and that it had been agreed that the maxima laid down in the Bill should be reduced so as to take care of only the inflation up to date and not future inflation. It had also been agreed that, to take care of future inflation, there should be a provision whereby Amendments to the maxima could be made by order instead of new legislation.

I told the House that in Committee I would be moving Amendments accordingly. I want to say that those are the only substantive Amendments that are proposed in the Marshalled List before us. The whole of the remainder of the Amendments are either consequential or drafting Amendments. Amendment No. 1 deals with the maximum which can be taken at any one time. At present only £2 can be taken at any one time. In the Bill it was proposed to increase it to £20. In accordance with the submission I made on Second Reading, I now propose the Amendment which will reduce the maximum to £10. I beg to move.

Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNE

As I said on Second Reading, we are entirely happy with the intentions behind this Bill and, so far as that is concerned, with all the Amendments to Clause 1.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Lord JACQUES moved Amendment No. 2: Page 1, line 11, leave out ("five hundred") and insert ("two hundred and fifty").

The noble Lord said: This deals with the maximum per depositor. At the present time it is £50. The Bill proposed that it should be £500. It is now proposed that it be £250. I beg to move.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Lord JACQUES moved Amendments Nos. 3 to 10: Page 1, line 18, leave out ("500") and insert ("250"). Page 2, line 2, leave out ("two pounds") and insert ("£2"). Page 2, line 5, leave out ("twenty pounds") and insert ("£10") Page 2, line 11, after ("force") insert ("or after the coming into force of an order under section (Further alterations of limits) below") Page 2, line 17, at end insert— ("( ) The committee of a registered society shall not have power to vary or revoke a resolution under subsections (2) or (3) above except in so far as they may be authorised to do so by an order under section 2 below.") Page 2, line 19, leave out ("resolutions") and insert ("a resolution") Page 2, line 19, leave out ("and") and insert ("or") Page 2, line 23, leave out ("these subsections") and insert ("this subsection").

The noble Lord said: Amendments Nos. 3 to 10 inclusive are all either consequential or drafting, and all refer to Clause 1. I therefore ask the leave of the Committee to move them en bloc.

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.

4.10 p.m.

Lord JACQUES moved Amendment No. 11: After Clause 1, insert the following new clause:

Further alterations of limits

.—(1) The chief registrar may from time to time, with the consent of the Treasury, by order substitute for the sums for the time being specified in section 7(3) of the Act of 1965 as the limits applicable thereunder such other sums, not being less than £10 (denoting the limit of deposits which can be taken at any one time) and £250 (denoting the maximum amount which can be taken from any one depositor), as may be specified in the order.

(2) An order under this section may make any such provision in connection with altering the limits for the time being applicable under the said section 7(3) as is made by section 1 above, and may contain such other transitional, consequential, incidental or supplementary provisions as appear to the chief registrar to be necessary or appropriate in that connection.

(3) An order made under this section may vary or revoke any previous order so made.

(4) The power to make an order under this section shall be exercisable by statutory instrument, which shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament; and the Statutory Instruments Act 1946 shall apply thereto as if the chief registrar were a Minister of the Crown."

The noble Lord said: This is the other substantive Amendment. It makes provision for future increases to the maxima to be made by order instead of by new legislation. It has a precedent. The Industrial and Provident Societies Act 1965, which deals with the maximum shareholdings of those societies, provided for future changes to be made by order. The provision which is proposed here is an exact copy of that which is in the 1965 Act. I beg to move.

Lord CULLEN of ASHBOURNE

I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Jacques, that this is a most sensible way of dealing with any alteration of limits in the future.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 2 agreed to.

In the Title:

Lord JACQUES moved Amendment No. 12: Line 1, leave out from ("the") to the end of line 5 and insert ("amounts of deposits which an industrial and provident society may take without thereby carrying on the business of banking; and to authorise the further alteration of those amounts from time to time.")

The noble Lord said: This Amendment is partly consequential upon Amendment No. 11, and partly drafting. There is nothing substantially new. I beg to move.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

House resumed: Bill reported with the Amendments.