HL Deb 14 February 1978 vol 388 cc1247-9

2.53 p.m.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have been informed about Mr. Brezhnev's request to NATO not to proceed with the manufacture of a neutron bomb, and what is their attitude.

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister recently received a letter from President Brezhnev about the so-called neutron bomb. I understand that a number of Western leaders have had similar messages. My right honourable friend will be replying to President Brezhnev at the appropriate time.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, as President Brezhnev dislikes any interference in Russian affairs, is not it about time that he ceases from intervening in other people's affairs? Why not tell him to mind his own business for a change?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, it is not for me to answer for President Brezhnev, but I could imagine that he might reply saying that any bomb is everybody's business.

The Earl of HALSBURY

My Lords, could the noble Lord tell us whether the request by President Brezhnev was accompanied by any offer of inspection facilities to ascertain whether or not the Russians are going ahead with a neutron bomb?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, the noble Earl knows full well that I am not at liberty to go into detail as to the content of such a message. However, what he has perhaps presciently raised concerns us all. We should discuss these matters: not only the abolition but also the verification of any abolition that is agreed.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, as my noble friend has stated that the subject of the neutron bomb is everybody's business, is not the intervention of Russia in parts of Africa also everybody's business? Are we not going to be a little less complacent and not be afraid of Russia? Why do we have to be afraid of anybody? Cannot we promote our own security alongside our allies, and then tell Russia that we shall do whatever we think is necessary in the interests of our security, whether Russia likes it or not?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, our policy is certainly to pursue our security in collaboration with our friends and allies. In so doing, of course, we are mindful of the fact that a very important element of security in modern conditions is agreement with potential attackers as to arms control and disarmament.

Lord AVEBURY

My Lords, could it be suggested to President Brezhnev in the course of the reply that it would assist in reducing tension and promoting world disarmament if the Soviet Union were not to proceed with the trial of Dr. Yuri Orlov and others concerned with the Helsinki Group on absurd charges, such as slander of the Soviet State?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, yes; I wholly agree. All these matters are related. We must pursue the disarmament of both the mind and the body. The purpose of our constant discussions with countries with which our system is not completely in accord is to seek the broadest possible grounds of agreement both in regard to policies such as those advocated by the noble Lord and also in the arms control and disarmament field.

Lord WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, will my noble friend agree that any step which is agreed between the countries for restricting the development of nuclear weapons is highly desirable and in the interests of us all?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, indeed. I am sure that I speak for the entire House—indeed, for practically everybody in this country and, I would say, throughout the world—in saying that that must be the objective. The longer we talk and discuss—especially at expert level—even with people with whom we do not have much in common as to political philosophy or even practice, the closer we shall come to the objective outlined by my noble friend.