Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask the Chairman of Committees at whose request are changes being made in the uniform and badges worn by the House of Lords Custodians.
§ The CHAIRMAN of COMMITTEES (Lord Aberdare)My Lords, the changes being made in the uniform and badges worn by the Custodians are consequential to the integration of the Custodian force into the Metropolitan Police.
Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he can give a rather better Answer than that? This Question has nothing to do with security; it deals with man management. Can he say what is the advantage of changing the well-known badges on the uniform which these men proudly wore and putting a label on their shoulders, unless it is to show that they are lesser mortals in the eyes of some? Can he not give an assurance that, even if we cannot continue exactly as we were, at least there will not be labels on their shoulders distinguishing them in this way?
§ Lord ABERDAREMy Lords, the Custodians' uniform is different from that of the police. I do not think it demeans their status; I think that perhaps it even enhances it to have "Metropolitan Police Security Officer" on their shoulders—which equates with other security officers in the Police Force. I am quite sure that the integration is in the interests of the security of the Palace of Westminster.
Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, may I say that I never in any way criticised the need for integration operationally, and that I am simply asking the noble Lord to look again at these changes in uniform which seem quite purposeless and are not always altogether popular?
§ Lord ABERDAREMy Lords, I think that opinions vary about this. I have had other views expressed to me. I know that change is never very pleasant to anybody and especially a change in uniforms; but I think that those of your Lordships who have seen the new uniform will not feel that it is other than a dignified uniform. I may add that we are all conscious of the excellent service that we get from the Custodians.
§ Lord PARGITERMy Lords, may I ask whether the staff were consulted in connection with the change?
§ Lord ABERDAREYes, my Lords, they were. The changes were accepted by the Civil Service Union and no indication has been given that the men's local representative or the union headquarters have any objection.