HL Deb 07 December 1978 vol 397 cc270-3

3.18 p.m.

Lord REIGATE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will now introduce legislation for the purpose first of enabling the citizens of the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands to have a vote in the elections to the European Parliament, and secondly to enfranchise United Kingdom nationals resident in other member countries of the EEC.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, the answer is, No. These matters were fully discussed in our debates on the European Assembly Elections Bill, when both Houses considered Amendments to extend the franchise for these elections.

Lord REIGATE

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that, apparently, the time is shortly coming when we shall be the only member of the Community whose nationals are not enfranchised if they are living abroad?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

That may well be so, my Lords, but, in the light of the discussions which took place in both Houses—a very full debate was held on this matter in your Lordships' House on 13th April, which the noble Lord will find at column 860 onwards, when these matters were very carefully considered—it is the Government's view that there should be no departure from the normal elections procedure which applies to our elections in this country.

Lord COCKFIELD

My Lords, I should like to ask the Minister whether there is any wish on the part of the people of Elian Vannin for representation of this kind?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I have no knowledge of that at all.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, are the Government quite happy that this very considerable number of British subjects should be permanently disfranchised?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, any British national living and working abroad is disfranchised so far as our own elections are concerned. The Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are dependencies of the Crown outside the Kingdom. As I understand the position, the decision of the Council of the European Communities made on 20th September 1976, provided for direct elections to the European Assembly, and, it was clearly indicated, applied to the United Kingdom only.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, the Island of Reunion is to be represented in the European Parliament, is it not?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I can only tell your Lordships the situation as I understand it arising from the decision of the Council of the European Communities, in which it was clearly indicated that the European Assembly applies only to the United Kingdom.

Lord FOOT

My Lords, did I understand the Minister to say that no representations have been received, or asked for, from the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man on this matter?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I said that I myself had no knowledge of any representations having been received. I shall make it my business to find out and let the noble Lord know.

The Lord Bishop of LEICESTER

My Lords, will the Minister accept it as a slight representation if I were to say that I have to go to Brussels quite regularly to assist in the relations between the Churches of the Nine, and it is extremely embarrassing when one is discussing these matters with people who live and work in Brussels to have to remind them that they themselves are excluded, whatever importance we attach to the elections?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I can only repeat that we went very fully into this matter in both Houses. The Government have given very careful consideration to it and, as I said, have, rightly or wrongly, come to the conclusion that there should be no departure from the normal procedure which affects our own elections in this country.

Lord REIGATE

My Lords, is it not time that the Government realised that we shall once again be out of step with the other countries in Europe, and will they not reconsider the matter?

Several noble Lords: Hear, hear!

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, noble Lords can say "hear, hear!", but the noble Lord, Lord Reigate, is the only Member of your Lordships' House who since April seems to have bothered about this matter, and we are now in December.

Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARY-LEBONE

My Lords, in his last answer but one the noble Lord said that the Government had decided "rightly or wrongly". Will he not report to his colleagues in another place that disquiet has been expressed from all quarters of the House, including the Bishops' Bench?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, whenever there seems to be a marked difference of opinion in your Lordships' House and I am involved, I always make it a point to see that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is aware of what has been said—and I shall gladly do that.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, so far as disquiet is concerned, may I be excluded when it comes to telling what has been said in this House? I do not care two hoots about the elections to the European Parliament.

Lord LEATHERLAND

My Lords, is it not a fact that the residents of the Isle of Man pay a much lower rate of income tax than do the residents of the United Kingdom, and therefore is it not quite reasonable that they should not be lumped together with the United Kingdom in a matter of this kind? I raise this point only because 300 years ago a man named Leatherland was the Governor of the Isle of Man.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, will the noble Lord bear in mind that we are responsible for defence and foreign affairs in the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, and that therefore it would be perfectly logical that people situated in both those islands should be enabled to exercise their vote in the Common Market elections?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I do not think that I can add anything useful to what I have already said.