HL Deb 01 August 1978 vol 395 cc1195-7

2.51 p.m.

Lord HATCH of LUSBY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to offer further economic assistance to the Government of Zambia in the immediate future.

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, during President Kaunda's visit to London in May, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced the offer of a loan of £15 million to Zambia for essential imports from Britain. This is a contribution to the international support being organised for Zambia by the World Bank Consultative Group. My right honourable friend the Minister for Overseas Development intends to visit Lusaka next week, when she will sign the loan agreement, and no doubt have further discussions on aid with Zambian Ministers.

Lord HATCH of LUSBY

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Will she accept that, when Zambia was given independence in 1964, she had already been tied by this country—by over 90 per cent.—to Southern Rhodesia and South Africa, so far as the economy was concerned; that 12 months later this country and, later, other countries, through the United Nations, asked Zambia to apply sanctions to Rhodesia, which she has done ever since, to the suffering of her own people, and which according to United Nations official aid sources has cost Zambia 744 million dollars; and that it is the Zambian people who have been in the front line in meeting the responsibility of the people of Britain?

Lord PEART

My Lords, I know that my noble friend is extremely interested in this subject, but he must not make a speech. He must ask.

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

Yes, my Lords. I am aware of the facts which my noble friend has mentioned, and indeed I answer his questions in the affirmative.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, is it not a fact that the recent opening of the Benguela railway will ease the economic situation in Zambia to a very considerable extent and therefore, happily, make Zambia less dependent on direct assistance?

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, I am afraid that it is not the recent opening; it is only under discussion at this time. It will, of course, be of great assistance, but I think it will necessitate a road link from Zambia to the railway.

Viscount MASSEREENE and FERRARD

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that, when our expert and humane colonial administration handed over the country of Zambia to the present régime, we left £60 million in the Exchequer? Of course, since then Zambia has had much aid, and would the noble Baroness not agree that any further economic assistance that we give to Zambia should be bound to two rules: first, that they cease to give succour to the terrorist bases on their territory; and, secondly, that we very carefully peruse how any aid is spent?

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, I was not aware of the sum of £60 million, but the whole House is aware of the distastrous fall in world copper prices and this, coupled with the loyal acceptance by Zambia of UN instructions to apply sanctions, has, as my noble friend said, resulted in their present troubles.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether it is not the case that Zambia has probably contributed more to the sanctions policy, and its population has suffered more by obedience to the United Nations decision, than any other country? In view of the present situation, is it not very desirable that there should be negotiations with, and friendliness to, Kenneth Kaunda in seeking to solve the problem of Rhodesia?

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, the answer to both parts of my noble friend's question is, Yes.

Lord BARNBY

My Lords, will the noble Baroness agree that it is a fact that sanctions have been broken as much by Zambia, through the importation of food from Rhodesia, as by other countries in Africa?

Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOE

My Lords, I am not aware of those facts. We are all aware of some sanction-breaking, and of some of the criminal things that have arisen from it.

Lord BRUCE of DONINGTON

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that certain petroleum companies would do well to follow the example of Zambia in this matter?