HL Deb 27 April 1978 vol 390 cc1977-9

3.25 p.m.

Lord SEGAL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the cost of manufacturing and maintaining a kidney dialysis machine, how many they have provided and how many have been discarded, or are not regularly in use.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, the cost of a kidney dialysis machine is between £4,000 and £4,500; a hospital patient on dialysis involves revenue costs of something like £10,000 a year and a patient on home dialysis something like £6,000 a year. A total of 2,976 machines have been purchased by health authorities through the Department's central contracts, but authorities also buy direct from several manufacturers. While information is not available of machines which may have been discarded, I should be surprised if available machines were not in regular use.

Lord SEGAL

My Lords, I should like to thank my noble friend for that reply. While no one would begrudge a single penny of the cost of these valuable life-saving machines, would my noble friend not agree that these enormous maintenance costs serve only to highlight the importance of the Government's kidney donor campaign? Could my noble friend say what percentage of patients now depending on these machines would qualify for kidney transplants if a sufficient supply were available?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I cannot give my noble friend the exact figure of the number of persons who would benefit from kidney transplants, except to say that I told your Lordships only a week or so ago that we needed something like, 1,500 kidneys a year in order to meet the demand. I am trusting to memory; I think I said that in the last year we were able to undertake only about 700 kidney transplants.

Lord AUCKLAND

My Lords, following the welcome news in the Budget that there is to be increased expenditure on kidney dialysis, can the noble Lord say whether renal dialysis facilities in the home, particularly for children and for those people who are working, will be increased as a result of the Budget, and, if so, to what extent in addition to the figures he has quoted?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, my right honourable friend indicated in another place that it was his intention to provide money in order to set up something like six centres for treatment for children. In addition, we are having discussions at the moment as to how best, from a siting point of view, to use the 400 machines when they become available. We have also to recognise that we shall have to train some people to use them. At the present moment there are 2,226 patients on dialysis machines, of whom 700 are being treated in hospital and the rest in their own homes.

Lord SEGAL

My Lords, in view of the very high cost of maintenance of these machines, would it not he logical to relieve kidney donors of the first £20,000 of duty on their estates? This is the amount of the saving to the taxpayer in a single year by a donor of both kidneys. Would my noble friend consider very seriously bringing this suggestion to the notice of the Chancellor of the Exchequer? This would not only ensure an ample supply of kidneys for transplants, but also lift a very heavy burden from the taxpayer.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I will do as my noble friend wishes and pass on this suggestion to my right honourable friend, who, no doubt, will pass it on, presumably to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Lord WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, can my noble friend say how much of the very high maintenance cost is labour cost? If it is a substantial amount of this cost, is it not possible by further development of the machine to make it much more automatic and to reduce the labour cost?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I cannot answer that because I really am not able to break down accurately either the £10,000 or the £6,000, other than to say that in assessing this figure one assesses an amount for overhead expenses, salaries of medical and technical staff, the cost of drugs, the provision of shunts, and all sorts of things that are necessary, both within the hospital and in the patient's home.