§ 2.45 p.m.
§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTERMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are considering banning the use of British territorial waters by large oil tankers operated under flags of convenience.
§ Baroness STEDMANNo, my Lords. While we have reservations about the concept of flags of convenience, to ban the use of British territorial waters to such vessels would be inconsistent with the principle of innocent passage enshrined in the 1958 Convention on the Territorial Sea, to which the Government are committed.
§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTERBut, my Lords, is it not a fact that these ships are registered in countries which they never visit, for the main purpose of avoiding the provisions for safety and manning which are imposed on their own ships by responsible maritime countries? And is it really an example of innocent passage to send ships which may well be questionably operated into the territorial waters of a country such as ours, in circumstances which may produce a similar tragedy to that which has recently affected the coasts of Brittany?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, arising out of a similar Question we had some discussion on this matter only a few days ago. On that day, we dealt with the question of substandard ships flying flags of convenience, and I then suggested that they were subject to certain limitations and subject to inspections and our information was that the flag States were being much more vigilant in checking over these ships. They are the responsibility of the flag States. If what we believe to be a substandard ship conies into a British port we have the right, not to restrict its entry but to delay its departure until in our view it has been put into a fit state.
§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTERMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say how the flag State can impose any inspection on ships that never visit its ports, and, in those circumstances, does her reply really mean that Her Majesty's Government are not prepared to take steps to prevent the otherwise certain repetition on our own coasts of the Brittany tragedy?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, we are not prepared and are not able to restrict the entry of flag of convenience ships into British ports. We are satisfied that so far as United Kingdom registered ships are concerned they have to conform to the highest standards both in the maintenance of their ships and in the experience of their crews. Negotiations are going on all the time with the nations which supply the flags of convenience to other shipping. As I said last week in answer to a question, they are tightening up on the restrictions. If a substandard ship comes into a British port we have the power to detain it until it is put right, but we do not have the right to stop innocent passage on the high seas.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that before there can be any question of banning ships that are registered in Liberia the British Council of Shipping should be consulted because, as has been mentioned in your Lordships' House on previous occasions, many of the ships registered in Liberia are in fact owned by British shipowners? Has there been any consultation on the subject of flags of convenience, and if not, why not?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, consultations are always going on over the safety of ships which use the high seas. My information is that many of the flag of convenience ships are used by multilateral companies who themselves insist upon very high standards in their ships and in the qualities of the seamanship of their crews. There are also other companies which use the flags of convenience because it is perhaps financially better for them to register under a flag of convenience rather than under the flag of their own State, but we have no knowledge that there are more accidents or more dangers attaching to those ships which are flying the flags of convenience than there are with the others. I understand that a few British ships are registered under flags of convenience, but for the most part it is no advantage to a British shipowner to have other than United Kingdom registration.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, will the noble Baroness accept that there is great anxiety that some of these ships are not under proper rules and could cause a disaster of the magnitude that has happened off Brittany? And can she say whether further action has been taken following the conference in London in February of the Inter-governmental Maritime Consultative Organisation (IMCO) on the safety of tankers, which particularly went into navigational and other matters?
§ Baroness STEDMANYes, my Lords, those consultations are still going on. IMCO are concerned. We are concerned as the United Kingdom Government. But we have not the power to prohibit the passage of these ships on the high seas.
§ Lord HALEMy Lords, in the meantime could the noble Baroness say whether there is any provision that these ships should be fully insured against damage caused to other countries and indeed to other persons generally?
§ Baroness STEDMANThat, my Lords, I could not answer without notice, hut I will take advice on it and write to the noble Lord.
§ The Earl of KIMBERLEYMy Lords, does the noble Baroness realise that if a 1802 large tanker comes in down in Cornwall off Falmouth harbour it has to anchor outside the actual jurisdiction area of the Harbour Commissioners because it cannot get in any closer, and no revenue is produced at all? It still gets revictualled, though it pays no dues.
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, that is a point of which was not aware; I will bring it to the notice of my right honourable friend.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, would not the Government be far wiser in every instance to allow these ships to discharge their cargoes first before proceeding to impose any restrictions upon them?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I think that raises another question. It is something to which I do not think I am competent to reply at the moment, but if the noble Lord likes to put down a further Question I will answer it.