§ 2.40 p.m.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg 1433 leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will take the initiative in proposing to Western Governments joint aid to Zambia in view of the severe economic difficulties of that country.
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, my right honourable friend the Minister for Overseas Development met the Zambian Finance Minister last week and discussed with him how we can help Zambia. The IMF has recently held discussions with the Zambian authorities about the measures required to help resolve Zambia's immediate problems. The Zambian Government have also asked the World Bank to convene a consultative group to discuss their longer-term needs. Her Majesty's Government warmly support these moves and propose to make substantial aid available to Zambia.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, in very much welcoming that reply, may I ask the noble Baroness this: Would she agree that, because of the fidelity of Zambia to the internationally imposed sanctions against Rhodesia, that country probably suffered more from sanctions than Rhodiesia did itself? Does the noble Baroness remember that a United Nations survey at the end of 1976 said that Zambia's loss had amounted to the enormous sum of 600 million dollars?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I think that the House recognises the great loyalty and fidelity of Zambia to the United Nations resolution. I was not aware of that particular sum, but I am now.
§ Lord CARRINGTONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness this question: While of course recognising the difficulty that the Zambian Government are in, which is very largely due to the copper price (which if otherwise would probably solve most of their problems), may I ask whether the Answer of the noble Baroness means that the very large sum of money which I understand the IMF have now 1434 lent the Zambian Government is not considered adequate?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I think the agreement has not actually been signed, though I know it has been discussed. One of the problems, and one of the matters that we hope the World Bank Consultative Group will tackle, is that there is almost certain to be a fairly substantial residual gap between the IMF credit to Zambia and their remaining needs for help. It is at that point that we hope to help with the consultative group.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, to revert to the reference by the noble Lord to copper prices, is it not the case that the reduced price for copper has helped our own balance of payments immensely in this country? is it not the case that 60 per cent. of the copper from Zambia comes to this country and the lower cost of imports has assisted this nation very considerably?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I would not be able to say whether it has helped "immensely". Of course, we pay for copper at the prevailing world prices, but we hope to assist Zambia by giving substantial aid of a different kind which will help to increase the productive capacity of her economy, help with her balance of payments, and therefore help with the pipe-line of debts and repayments which we all know exists.