PENSIONS FOR THE OVER 80s (Hansard, 18 April 1978)

§ Lord WELLS-PESTELL
My Lords, I was hoping my noble friend would declare an interest in this Question in view of the fact that I understand he is 80 years of age today. That being the case, I am sure your Lordships would wish me, on behalf of the whole House, to extend to him our congratulations and good wishes. Having said that, it is with regret that I must tell him that the Government have no plans to make a substantial increase in retirement pensions for the over 80s. Their policy has been to concentrate available resources on improving the level of retirement pensions generally, rather than to give special priority to one group of beneficiaries solely on grounds of age. Retirement pensions, including the non-contributory pensions for the over 80s, will continue to be increased annually at least in line with the movement of prices or earnings, whichever is more favourable to pensioners.
Last week, the Government announced that pensions are to be increased in November, and this will raise their real value to a record level. However, the Government are conscious that the very old may have special needs and priorities. As many of your Lordships will be aware, the Government will shortly be publishing 974 a discussion document entitled On the Needs of the Elderly, prior to the publication next year of a White Paper on the needs of the elderly. This will cover the needs of the very old and, in particular, whether they can best be met by the provision of cash or services. The Government look forward with interest to the reaction to these documents.

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether, if the Chancellor of the Exchequer is disturbed by the present financial stringency and cannot do anything for the over 80s, he could budget for less expense by doing something for the over 90s?

§ Lord BLYTON
My Lords—
Several noble Lords: Order!

§ Lord WELLS-PESTELL
My Lords, it is the custom of your Lordships' House that whoever puts down the Question should, if he wishes to do so, immediately put a supplementary question.

§ Lord LEATHERLAND
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his reply which, although cautious, was slightly hopeful. Would he not agree that the over 80s are the orphans of the storm from an inflationary point of view? Does he appreciate how difficult it is for them to get part-time jobs and that many of them will receive nothing whatever from the income tax cuts announced in last week's Budget? Finally, will he bear in mind that during their working lives wages were at a low level, making it difficult for them to acquire a nest-egg for their old age?

§ Lord WELLS-PESTELL
My Lords, my noble friend has raised a number of points and I think I can best answer by saying that one cannot argue but that the over 80s are worse off in certain respects than some people over 75. The Government are endeavouring to look at the real needs of elderly pensioners, those over 80, because we may well find that it is not necessarily cash they want but perhaps services like better nursing facilities, meals-on-wheels and things of that kind; it may be that services are much more important than money. One must also bear in mind that pensions are increased in line with earnings or 975 prices, whichever is the greater, and that the over 80s get the same increase as those who are also on retirement pension.

§ Lord REIGATE
My Lords, is it not a fact that a higher percentage of those over 80 are receiving supplementary benefit than those between 70 and 80?

§ Lord WELLS-PESTELL
I do not know whether that is so, my Lords. It might be, but I could not answer Yes or No.

§ Lord BLYTON
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that he could have told my noble friend Lord Leatherland—to whom I wish many happy returns of the day—about the aged persons' allowance, a benefit of 25p a week?

§ Lord WELLS-PESTELL
My Lords, it is perfectly true that those over 80, whether they are receiving a contributory or non-contributory pension, receive an age addition allowance of 25p. I am not for a moment suggesting that it is adequate and it may well be that that sort of thing will need to be looked at in the future. I would point out, however, that it was not increased by the previous or the present Government. It would cost a considerable sum to raise it by a substantial amount; for example, if we were to increase the age addition of 25p a week to £1 it would cost no less than £50 million a year, and at this particular juncture we are not in a position to make increases of that kind.

§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTER
My Lords, can the noble Lord confirm that in the files of the Department of Health and Social Security there are studies going back many years to the time when the age allowance was initiated, which demonstrates very clearly that in general the needs of the over 80s are considerably more severe than those of younger pensioners, both because they can do less for themselves and because their equipment, and clothes, and other things are wearing out? In considering this very real social problem, on which there is considerable feeling, will the noble Lord not be misled by the spritely vigour of his noble friend who asked the Question?

§ Lord WELLS-PESTELL
My Lords, I would not be prepared to accept that 976 researches done a good many years ago were relevant to the present situation. I have done some research in my time, not in this field; but researches done many years ago are not necessarily relevant to the period in which a fresh research should be undertaken. We are undertaking that research, and, as I said, we shall be issuing a document for consultation in the very near future, prior to issuing a White Paper on the needs of the elderly.

§ Lord BOOTHBY
My Lords, can the noble Lord give an assurance that Her Majesty's Government will give some consideration to those who are over 75, because they are sometimes very old?

§ Lord LEATHERLAND
My Lords, finally, may I ask my noble friend, before he pays too much attention to the suggestion from the noble Lord opposite—that supplementary benefit is available to these people—to bear in mind that these people have long memories, which go back to the hungry 'thirties and to the old-fashioned Poor Law, and that their pride very frequently prevents them applying for this kind of supplementary benefit, which they quite erroneously associate with the old-fashioned Poor Law?

§ Lord WELLS-PESTELL
My Lords, I would accept that, for the simple reason that I believe Members of your Lordships' House on all sides lament the fact that so many of our benefits are not being taken up by people when they ought to apply for them.