Lord CHELWOODMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a Statement about their discussions with Mr. Brian Talboys regarding prices, quotas and import levies for New Zealand butter and cheese exports to the United Kingdom and to the rest of the European Community after 1980, and give an assurance that any new arrangements regarding dairy products or sheepmeat will he consistent with the spirit and letter of the promises made in Protocol 18 of the Treaty of Accession and atthe European Council in Dublin in 1975.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, Ministers were able to have an extensive exchange of views with Mr. Talboys. They concentrated particularly on sheep-meat. They agreed that any Community sheepmeat regime must provide for the United Kingdom's need for substantial imports from New Zealand.
Arrangements made under Protocol 18 of the Treaty of Accession assure imports of specified quantities of butter from New Zealand up to the end of 1980. Arrangements for the period after 1980 will be decided by the Council on the basis of Protocol 18 and in the light of a report which the European Commission intends to submit later this year.
No provision was made in Protocol 18 for continued imports of New Zealand cheese after the end of 1977 but the Heads of Government of the Community, meeting in Dublin in March 1975, noted that 232 this situation and the problems that might arise would be given due attention. The possibility of access arrangements for cheese is one of the questions to be considered in the negotiations for a new international agreement on dairy products in the GATT multilateral tradenegotiations.
Lord CHELWOODMy Lords. I am most grateful to the Minister for that very full reply. May I ask him this question: during the 1978 review which the Commission is carrying out, will the Government press our partners in the Community to meet New Zealand's need for cheese exports to this country in thelight of the promises made in the Dublin agreement. and in particular do their best to ensure that the butter quotas after 1980 meet NewZealand's essential requirements? So far as sheepmeat is concerned, is the noble Lord aware of the very considerable anxiety in New Zealand since the draft regulation was laid in Brussels—I think yesterday or the day before—about the so-called safeguard clause under which imports could be unilaterally restricted, with very serious consequences indeed for New Zealand farmers?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, ifI may take lamb first, the proposals to which the noble Lord has referred, which were published yesterday, do not appear to hinder the substantial imports which meet over one-third of the Community's requirements and, of course, half of the United Kingdom's requirements. New Zealand has security, in that the 20 per cent. tariff is bound into the GATT agreement. Any proposals for a sheepmeat régime must respect this binding. In the unlikely event of it being disturbed, New Zealand, I must stress, would have the right to compensation. With regard to butter, the Council of Ministers has confirmed that Protocol 18 remains the basis for continued imports of New Zealand butter after 1980. Arrangements will depend on circumstances at the time.
Turning to cheese, although, as the noble Lord said, imports of cheese under Protocol 18 ceased at the end of last year, we believe strongly that there is scope for a continued New Zealand presence in our cheese market, without prejudice to our own producers. The access arrangements for cheese are among the questions to be 233 considered in the multilateral trade negotiations.
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, while the noble Lord explained the position with regard to the negotiations, I do not think that he quite answered the question which my noble friend asked him: namely, will the Government ensure that the situation of New Zealand is taken into account in the Government's negotiations with regard to the future after 1980? In other words, will the Government make sure that New Zealand's situation is made quite clear to the EEC?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Earl for asking me that question because it enables me to confirm the Government's general attitude: that we shall ensure that our Community sheepmeat régime provides for our need to import substantial quantities of lamb from New Zealand. Protocol 18 provides for imports of New Zealand butter to continue indefinitely, at quantities to be agreed after 1980. With regard to cheese, we believe that there is a need for a continuing New Zealand supply and, as I said, negotiations with New Zealand are taking place.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware of the fact that in these discussions the word "sheepmeat" seems to have attained a certain amount of prominence? Can we not stick to the old-fashioned terms "mutton" and "lamb"?
§ Lord BALLANTRAEMy Lords, while welcoming the statement which the noble Lord has made, which I take to mean that the interests of New Zealand in the matter of sheepmeat regulations will be looked after, may I ask him for an assurance that the Government will oppose any proposal to increase charges on the levies now being exacted on lamb—I avoid the word "sheepmeat"—imports, which at present amount to 20 per cent.?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, weshall certainly do that, and I am very glad to be able to give this assurance to the noble Lord, Lord Ballantrae, who is a former, distinguished Governor General of New Zealand. May I repeat again that if the 20 per cent. tariff does have to be increased—and we shall hope that it 234 does not—New Zealand will have the right to compensation.
§ Lord BALLANTRAEMy Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord for that second encouraging reply. I should like to ask the Minister for an assurance, which I am sure will be given: will the Government continue strongly to resist any moves within the EEC generally which would create further trading difficulties for New Zealand, whose economy at the moment is in rather poor "nick"?
§ Lord STRABOLGIYes, certainly, my Lords. My right honourable friend the Minister has recently given these assurances to Mr. Talboys and Mr. Maclntyre.
Lord LLOYDMy Lords, may I thank the Minister for what he has said. Since I have just returned from a business visit to New Zealand, I think that he ought to know of the very real anxiety that exists in New Zealand about these matters, upon which the whole of their economy depends. I hope that what the noble Lord has said will set their hearts at peace.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Lloyd, for what he has said, and we are very glad to see him here again. I do not think I can make plainer what I said before in answer to previous questions.