Lords Sitting of 3 November 1977

THE QUEEN'S SPEECH
The QUEEN, being seated on the Throne, and attended by Her Officers of State (the Lords being in their robes), commanded the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, through the Lord Great Chamberlain, to let the Commons know, "It is Her Majesty's pleasure they attend Her immediately in this House"
Who being come, with their Speaker:
Her Majesty was pleased to speak as follows:
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
"My husband and I look back with delight and gratitude on the events which marked My Silver Jubilee at home and overseas, and the visits which we made to many parts of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth. I look forward to paying a State Visit to the Federal Republic of Germany next May and to opening the Commonwealth Games in Edmonton in August.
"In pursuit of peace and collective security, the United Kingdom remains committed to the aims of détente, disarmament and the prevention of the spread of nuclear weapons. My Government reaffirm their policies in international relations and defence, and
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will contribute fully to the work of the United Nations, the Commonwealth and the North Atlantic Alliance.
"While working for policies which fully reflect the interests of the United Kingdom, My Government will play a full and co-operative part in the activities, the development and the enlargement of the European Economic Community.
"They will continue to contribute modern and effective forces to the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, and to play their full part in the current Alliance studies of East/West relations and of the Alliance's defence programmes. They are participating constructively in the important meeting in Belgrade which is being held as part of the follow-up to the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe; they will abide by the provisions of the Final Act, and continue to seek fulfilment of all its provisions by other signatories. They remain committed to the pursuit of détente in their relations with the Soviet Union and the countries of Eastern Europe.
"My Government will continue to take part in international efforts to combat recession and promote a more stable world economic order, and a fairer distribution, within an expanding world economy, of the world's wealth between rich and poor nations; they will maintain their special efforts to help the poorest countries and the poorest people.
"They will work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East, and the further improvement of relations between the United Kingdom and all the countries in the area. They will continue to co-operate with all concerned in the search for a lasting settlement in Cyprus, where they welcome the resumption of intercommunal talks.
"Efforts will be maintained to achieve a negotiated settlement in Rhodesia, on the basis of My Government's proposals published in September this year, which are designed to provide a secure future for people of all races. My Government will be ready during the current Session to introduce legislation to enable Rhodesia to proceed to independence on this basis.
"Members of the House of Commons,
"Estimates for the public service will be laid before you.
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
"The strengthening of the country's financial position and balance of payments opens the prospect for a continuing improvement in the economy and the maintenance of financial stability. My Government's main objectives are the speediest possible return to full employment and a sustained growth of output. In order to achieve these objectives they will give the highest priority to further reductions in the rate of inflation.
"My Government will continue to take action to reduce high unemployment through manpower measures and to promote industrial training.
"They will ensure that the benefits of North Sea oil are used to achieve a lasting improvement in our industrial performance and therefore to provide more jobs, higher real incomes and improved public services.
"My Ministers will continue to work in close co-operation with the Trades Union Congress and the Confederation of British Industry.
"Internationally My Government will continue to urge that the stronger economies should take the lead in promoting a sustained growth in the world and that adequate official finance should be made available on appropriate
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terms to countries with continuing deficits in the balance of payments.
"My Government remain firmly committed to establishing directly elected Assemblies for Scotland and Wales. Separate Bills will be introduced for this purpose.
"In Northern Ireland My Government will maintain their aims of establishing a devolved Government acceptable to both parts of the community; and eradicating terrorism by the prosecution through the courts of those responsible for violence and by continuing to develop the effectiveness of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, supported by My Armed Forces. My Government attach special importance to co-operation on matters of security with the Government of the Republic of Ireland. They will continue to seek measures to strengthen the economy of Northern Ireland and improve its social environment.
"Legislation providing for the election of United Kingdom members of the European Assembly will be re-introduced.
"Further consultations will be held on industrial democracy, with a view to producing proposals which should command general support, and My Ministers will continue directly to encourage the development of industrial democracy in the nationalised industries.
"There will be a review of the legislation and institutions governing competition policy, to see that this makes its maximum contribution to improving industrial efficiency.
"My Ministers are considering further measures to assist small firms.
"They will also hold consultations about encouraging profit-sharing through the tax system.
"Legislation will be brought forward to amend company law.
"A Bill will be introduced to provide public funds to finance payments to redundant shipbuilding workers in the public sector.
"Legislation will be introduced providing for changes in the structure of the electricity industry and other matters affecting the industry.
"Continued encouragement will be given to the efficient production, processing and distribution of food with the aim of meeting a greater proportion of our national needs from United Kingdom agriculture. My Ministers will seek improvements in the operation of the Common Agricultural Policy.
"My Government will continue to seek major reform of the Common Fisheries Policy. They will aim to secure conditions which will meet the needs of the British fishing industry, conserve fishing stocks, and ensure adequate supplies to the consumer.
"A Bill will be laid before you to increase the borrowing powers of the Civil Aviation Authority and British Airways, to provide for a levy to finance aviation security and to amend the civil aviation Acts.
"Legislation will be introduced for the further development of transport policy to meet economic and social needs, including those of rural areas.
"Legislation will be brought before you to provide assistance for first-time home buyers.
"A Bill will be introduced to renew and revive the inner urban areas.
"Legislation will be introduced on the composition and certain functions of the General Medical Council.
"In addition to My Government's full programme of constitutional and other reforms for the present Session, they remain committed to bringing forward at the earliest opportunity a number of further highly desirable measures of reform. These measures include improvements in safety and discipline at sea and other aspects of merchant shipping, and the right of Post Office staff to take industrial action.
"Legislative proposals will be brought forward for the reform of Section 2 of the Official Secrets Act 1911.
"Following the Report of the Committee on the Future of Broadcasting, My Government will bring forward proposals on the constitution, structure and organisation of broadcasting in the United Kingdom.
"An increase in the limit on public funds for the National Film Finance Corporation will be proposed before the present limit expires.
"Measures will be brought before you to reform public sector housing subsidies in Scotland; to improve criminal procedure and reform the criminal justice system in Scotland; and to extend the powers of Scottish local authorities in relation to their direct labour organisations.
"Further progress will be made with My Government's programme of law reform.
"Other measures will be laid before you.
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
"I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest upon your counsels."
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed at half-past three of the clock: The LORD CHANCELLOR On the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Manchester.
The Earl of Liverpool—Took the Oath.

ROLL OF THE LORDS
Prepared by the Clerk of the Parliaments: Ordered to lie on the Table, and to be printed.

SELECT VESTRIES
Bill,pro forma, read 1a.
ADDRESS IN REPLY TO HER MAJESTY'S MOST GRACIOUS SPEECH.
The Queen's Speech reported by The LORD CHANCELLOR.
3.48 p.m.
Lord PONSONBY of SHULBREDE: My Lords, I beg to move, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as follows:
"Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the

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most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament";
and, I should add, for being here in person to deliver the Speech only a few hours after touching down at Heathrow in Concorde, and a mere 48 hours after opening the Barbados Parliament. This, my Lords, makes one realise straight away the incredible strain under which we have placed our Sovereign in this Jubilee Year. Our Opening today is the seventh opening of a Parliament Her Majesty has carried out this year, starting with the New Zealand Parliament in February and the Australian in March, followed by the Canadian, Bahamian, and Virgin Isles Council in October, and of course the Barbados Parliament on Tuesday of this week. Having myself just returned from an official Tourist Board trip to the United States of America which involved visiting five cities in 12 days, I can readily appreciate the exhaustion which Her Majesty must have suffered and the effect which such a trip involves. I can only marvel at the courage and stamina which enabled Her Majesty to carry out our Opening today with so much grace.
Two years ago, at the height of the economic crisis, when the idea of the Silver Jubilee Celebrations was first mooted in the Evening Standard by Mr. Iltyd Harrington, it was difficult to imagine that Britain would be in a mood to celebrate in 1977. Even in January of this year many people were doubtful about the success of the celebrations. For much of this year I served in an ex-officio capacity on the Council of the Prince of Wales' Silver Jubilee Appeal Fund and on the London Celebrations Committee and therefore was involved with planning the celebrations in London. Together with London's 33 mayors and Lord Mayors, as chairman of the Greater London Council I was much concerned with the plans for launching the Silver Jubilee Appeal and the arrangements for the celebrations, and in taking part in a number of the earlier ones.
We shall all have our own recollections of the celebrations. The night I shall remember particularly was the very wet night of the river pageant and firework display. A part of Her Majesty's itinerary on that occasion was to walk from County
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Hall to the Shell Centre, which is normally not a
very long or arduous walk. On this occasion, however, the pathway was lined with hundreds of loyal citizens who were wet through as the result of waiting for hours in the pelting rain to catch a glimpse of Her Majesty. When she came they cheered and she had a friendly word for many of them. It was a very touching moment which has been repeated many times throughout all parts of the Kingdom. Here, we must pay particular tribute to the dedicated heroism of Her Majesty in insisting on visiting all parts of the Kingdom, including Northern Ireland. Everywhere the cry was the same, "We want the Queen!" I must also pay tribute to the other members of the Royal Family who shouldered much of the burden of the celebrations.
My principal duty today is to thank Her Majesty for her Address, but I felt it wrong to do so without also thanking Her Majesty for all she has done during this Jubilee Year. I hope she realises how much she is loved by the British and all her people.
In preparing my speech today I have, like my predecessors, searched heavily through the back copies of Hansard for suitable precedents. I have noted that in Victorian times Hansard described the clothes the mover was wearing. We seem to have dropped that custom, though I noted that, when the noble Earl, Lord Mansfield, spoke, he got over the change of custom by describing to your Lordships the clothes he was wearing on that occasion. The most relevant connection I could find with the past was the fact that my grandfather, when leading the Opposition Peers, performed the role that the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, is to perform today, each year between 1931 and 1934. Indeed, I hope that, in his generosity, the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, may be able to echo some of the remarks my grandfather made in 1932, when he said:
"… and my congratulations have to go further than to the two noble Lords who have moved and seconded the humble Address. They have to go to the Leader of the House. It is unusual that I should congratulate him, but I do so on this occasion on the choice of the mover and seconder".
I may add that my grandfather then went on, as I am certain the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, will do, to deal with the many omissions which he saw in the

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gracious Speech. At this juncture, I very much wish to thank the Leader of the House and the Chief Whip for the honour they have bestowed on me in asking me to move the humble Address this afternoon.
The gracious Speech from the Throne underlines the dramatic change which has taken place in this country's financial position in the past year, and I am sure we all wish to see the speediest return to full employment. Such measures as the Government deem it prudent to take to achieve these ends will have our wholehearted support. Although the arrival of North Sea oil is usually given pride of place as being most responsible for the change in the economic climate in this country, we should not forget the increasing role played by tourism. Of all our invisible exports, tourism is now the largest; this year we have been earning £8 million a day from overseas visitors. As such, tourism is one of the fastest growing earners of foreign currency for Britain.
In some ways, the legislation proposed in the gracious Speech has a familiar ring about it. I know that we shall want to examine in detail the proposals for the establishment of directly elected Assemblies for Scotland and Wales, and I am sure that some measure of local autonomy is desirable. Equally, I must say, as a Londoner, that I am sure that London would be just as capable and just as responsible in the exercise of additional powers. I know that the case for the separate treatment of London is a difficult one, but London is not only the national capital and by far the most populous area of the country; it is also the centre of a national and international system of transport and finance. It has both special problems and special strengths and this has been acknowledged by separate local government legislation on more than one occasion. Another familiar item in the gracious Speech is the proposal that we are to consider elections to the European Assembly. We shall indeed be familiar with that particular item.
Many other items of legislation are proposed, and they are all items for the good government of our country and the well-being of our citizens. The problems of industrial democracy have vexed Governments
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for generations. If the further consultations proposed result in proposals leading to industrial harmony, we shall all be pleased. Likewise, one hopes that legislation proposed for the further development of the transport policy to meet economic and social needs will help to solve the conflict which has long existed between the needs for a transport system to be commercially viable and the need for it to serve the community as a whole.
The problem of reviving the inner urban areas requires courage, foresight and a lot of hard cash. In London, as elsewhere, vast tracts of once thriving industrial land now lie derelict. It is tempting to use all the land to solve the city's housing problems, but to do so would not compensate for the loss of jobs occasioned by the closing down of outdated economic activities. What we need is new economic activities such as, in London for example, those connected with re-establishing London's position as the showpiece of the world.
As always, the most intriguing item in the gracious Speech is.
"Other measures will be laid before you".
This might include the reform of this House, but I doubt it. Finally, I should like to extend good wishes at the start of the new Session to all those who labour with special responsibilities in this House, but particularly to the noble Lord the Leader of the House, the Chief Whip and to the hardworking Members of all the Front Benches. My Lords, I beg to move that an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty.
Moved, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as follows:
"Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament.""—(Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede.)
4 p.m.
Lord PARRY: My Lords, I beg to second my noble friend's Motion for an humble Address in reply to Her Majesty's most gracious Speech. I do so conscious

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of the fact that a prophet is not without honour, save only in his own country, which probably explains why so many Welshmen come to England to make speeches. I think that I can safely rise in your Lordships' House as some kind of Old Testament prophet, with a beard; and, in view of the remarks made in the moving of the humble Address, I should say that it was suggested to me that, if I needed a text in the Welsh tradition for my speech this afternoon, I might take the text,
"Seek ye the Lord while he is yet found".
There was also told to me last night a classic story of a Welshman, Dai Davies, who was dying. His neighbour visited him to comfort him, and he said,
"No, no, Dai. With an iron constitution like yours you are not dying. You could linger on for months and months yet".
My Lords, it was 21 days less than a year ago when, on Wednesday, 24th November, 1976, my noble friends Lord Wallace of Coslany and Lord Pitt of Hampstead last moved the traditional words that have just been used by my noble friend Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede in a strong and moving proposal of the humble Address. My noble friends emphasised the significance of the Silver Jubilee. Your Lordships may remember that my noble friend Lord Wallace called it
"… a period of justifiable celebration by the nation as a whole for a duty being carried out with dignity and utter devotion ".—[Official Report, 24/11/76; col. 7.]
At column 8 he talked of a
"spirit of unity and neighbourliness [which was] reminiscent of the parties at the end of the war, when unity and neighbourliness was a significant part of our national life".
He hoped that that spirit would return during the coming years.
There was then total agreement with that hope from all parts of this House. Yet, even as we agreed, we knew that the times and the prospects were difficult. They were as bleak as any known in wartime, or post-wartime Britain. While we anticipated the Jubilee, and celebrated the State Opening of Parliament, we were conscious of long-term problems, and we knew that our own difficulties as a nation stemmed in part from, and were matched by, international recession and political change, as much as from internal causes
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native to Britain. Indeed, launching the second day's debate on the Address, at column 27 of the Official Report the noble Earl, Lord Gowrie, said:
"Yesterday's party and pageantry is over and we revert now to the bleakest prospects for our country that anyone born during or after the last World War can remember".
And there was no dissenting voice from that, either.
We began the Jubilee Parliament determined to celebrate the Anniversary and, at the same time, to face the realities of the present and the future, while saluting our nation's past. The presence in your Lordships' House today—as the mover of the Motion has so aptly and properly said—of the sovereign Head of our sovereign State, within hours of her return to Britain, looking hack, as she said, "with delight and gratitude" on the events which marked her Silver Jubilee, is a measure of personal and of national pleasure in a duty carried out with so much dignity and such devotion that everyone involved has felt the better for it.
We have enjoyed the parties. We have revelled in the pageantry, and I think that we astounded and delighted the world that we were able to do it. Surprisingly—or perhaps not so surprisingly—we have not simply recovered something of our national self-confidence during the year; we actually have reasons to be confident that Britain can cope with the undoubted problems of its immediate future.
Many, if not most of us, in this ancient House were born long before the last World War. Some of us are exact contemporaries of the Queen, though we do not wear as well. Her Jubilee takes us into our own second half century. Our own living has coincided with hers. So it was not so surprising that an occasion to celebrate met and matched the need to have something to celebrate. For far too long we had limited ourselves in outlook and attitude. For far too long we had assumed the worst about people and prospects.
My own criticism of the times through which I have lived is that Governments and administrations had put smaller and smaller concepts of what human living was about before the people of this nation. Once international in outlook, we were becoming, it seemed to me, increasingly introspective. We seemed at times dangerously

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close to becoming an isolated welfare island in a sea of international poverty. Our own arguments were more about what we called, significantly, "the national cake", than about the fact that two-thirds of mankind had little daily bread.
You will realise, then, that I welcome more than anything in a long time the international dimension given to the gracious Speech. More than a quarter of it was given to international relationships: the pursuit of peace and collective security; commitment to détente, to disarmament and to the prevention of the spread of nuclear weapons; to international Treaty obligations, common defence against aggression; the United Nations and the Commonwealth.
A most significant passage of the gracious Speech was:
"My Government will continue to take part in international efforts to combat recession and promote a more stable world economic order, and a fairer distribution, within an expanding world economy, of the world's wealth between rich and poor nations; they will maintain their special efforts to help the poorest countries and the poorest people".
I remember from my own childhood, and from my own schooldays, in Wales the words of the American slave poet James Russell Lowell, who wrote:
"Once, to every man and nation,
Comes the moment to decide,
In the strife of truth with falsehood
For the good or evil side.
Then, to side with truth is noble
When we share her wretched crust
'Er her cause bring fame and profit
And 'tis properous to be just
Then, it is, the brave man chooses,
While the coward stands aside,
'Til the multitude make virtue
Of the faith they once denied".
This gracious Speech began with a solid international dimension, and went into some of the detailed proposals of national reorganisation. It mentioned, too, specific hopes for devolution in Scotland and in Wales, and it will have struck echoes in parts of those countries, where the Secretaries of State and others have long been pressing for measures of devolution leading towards the establishment of devolved opportunities for their administrations. The Speech went on to mention legislation for the election of United Kingdom representatives at the European Assembly. There were even, too, mentions of local and particular difficulties and of the
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need to keep dying local industries alive; and your Lordships will know already that I have taken some encouragement over what has been said about the fisheries policy, although it comes too late already for that area of Wales which is my own home.
The gracious Speech stated:
"Following the Report of the Committee on the Future of Broadcasting, my Government will bring forward proposals on the constitution, structure and organisation of broadcasting in the United Kingdom".
In case I may, in the last few moments, have appeared to be parochial, I should say that I am advised that my friends in Scotland, although they believe that their law is superb and they are sometimes rather surprised that people think that it needs improvement, welcome very much the promise to improve criminal procedure and reform the criminal justice system in Scotland.
I began, my Lords, perhaps lightly, and I proceeded perhaps very seriously, and in the end I followed the Welsh tradition of making three points. I have talked about personality—the personality of Her Majesty the Queen, who delivered the gracious Speech. I have talked about policy, which is an important aspect of the gracious Speech itself. And I have talked, too, of principle which, however divided we may be about policy, and whatever our difference of origin and experience, we all share; the principle of a constitutional democracy which gives us the right to differ from one another, and which often affords us the opportunity to do so in order that consensus might be reached.
So, in conclusion, I remember that the gracious Speech ended with these words:
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest upon your counsels".
I believe that it would be a small man, whatever his particular belief, who would not at this time join with us in saying how deeply we appreciate Her Majesty's service, not just of the last 12 months but of the last 25 years; and who would not say with us all, whether or not he would question the particular term as to the deity, "God save the Queen!" My Lords, I beg to second my noble friend's Motion for an humble Address.
4.11 p.m.
Lord CARRINGTON: My Lords, I beg to move that this debate be adjourned until Tuesday next. If Lord Ponsonby's grandfather had made this speech 10 times, as I have done, and not three, as he did, he would be as grateful as I am for the tips that his grandson has given me; and your Lordships will agree with me that both Lord Ponsonby and Lord Parry have acquitted themselves splendidly in the impossible task which the Leader of the House was unkind enough to give them. No one has been offended, everyone is satisfied and around the House there is a general air of agreement and contentment which may or may not last until the end of the afternoon.
My Lords, both noble Lords are comparative newcomers to this House. Lord Ponsonby is that comparatively rare bird, an hereditary Labour Peer. It is not for me to speculate as to why it is comparatively rare. He has had a distinguished career in local government—he was chairman of the GLC—and he is a distinguished Fabian (not of course, of the Yard, but of the Society). Indeed, he was their general secretary. From the point of view of the noble Lords opposite, clearly he has an impeccable pedigree. In addition, he is a governor of the London School of Economics and chairman of the London Tourist Board. He is a most welcome addition to this House, for the public work that he has done during his life makes him very well qualified to add to the usefulness of our work here; and, if he will allow me to say so, he has made a particularly graceful speech this afternoon. I thought, until I got to the end of his entry in Who's Who, that he seemed rather an austere figure, but I then read that his recreations are eating, drinking and gardening. I can only suppose that he has taken to gardening so that he can more safely go on eating and drinking.
Lord Parry is a Peer of a very different colour, if I may put it that way. He is not English, he is Welsh; he is not hereditary. But he certainly has one thing in common with Lord Ponsonby, and that is a lifetime of service to the community—as a teacher, as an educationalist, as a librarian, as a housemaster, as an administrator in education and as a member of the Labour Party. The uninitiated, and those rather shortsighted,
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like myself, who come to this House for the first time, might be forgiven for supposing that Abraham Lincoln had been reincarnated, and had rather oddly decided to join the Labour Party, though it is difficult to suppose that Abraham Lincoln's entry in Who's Who would record that his chief recreation was watching the Welsh rugby fifteen win the grand slam. Anyway, if the noble Lord continues to make speeches of the kind that he has made this afternoon I think he will have the assurance of all your Lordships that he can, whenever he feels like it, in perfect safety, visit the London theatre.
My Lords, both speeches have been as agreeable as any I have heard for a very long time on the moving and seconding of the humble Address. We congratulate both noble Lords; and I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Peart, on the choice that he made. I congratulate him, of course, in finding two of his own side who, after the events at Brighton, are still prepared to come to this House at all and take part in its proceedings. We on this side read with great interest of the gladiatorial contest which took place at Brighton about the abolition of this House: 6 million votes in favour and Lady Llewelyn-Davies against! If I do her no irreparable damage, I think she was very brave indeed. Or perhaps it was 6 million votes against Lady Llewelyn-Davies and Lord Shinwell. I am not quite sure; I am rather confused. At any rate, we on this side of the House are delighted that the noble Lord should have been the success of the Labour Party Conference, but a little astonished at the 6 million people present at Brighton. They were, of course, in the new stadium, which is quite roomy, but none of those 6 million present seemed to know anything of the events which led up to the motion to abolish the House of Lords. None of them seemed to realise that it was Lord Shinwell who, nobly, resolutely, stalwartly, independently, with rhetoric, with gusto, with perfect timing, marched regularly into the Lobby against the Government on the Government's shipbuilding nationalisation Bill, so (and I speak, of course, in inverted commas) effectively thwarting the will of the people as represented by the elected House. Ah, well!
I have no wish to spoil, and I hope I have not so far spoilt, what is essentially

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an agreeable afternoon. Let me just say that I hope that wiser counsels will prevail and remove the suspicion that some people have that the abolition of the House of Lords is favoured by many people in the Labour Party more because they wish to get their legislation through with a minimum of fuss than because they have a proper regard for the constitutional safeguards which a reformed Second Chamber should be required to provide in our unwritten Constitution.
For the rest, I do not think that the gracious Speech could be said to be either surprising or very exciting, though the absence of any mention of white fish or herring is surely a deplorable lapse from tradition. But it presages a great deal of hard work for all of us, and he would be an optimist who would suppose that the direct elections Bill and, more particularly, the devolution Bills are going to go through Parliament without controversy. I would ask the Leader of the House to remember that there are very large numbers of people in this House, on all sides, who hold very strong views about these matters, more particularly about the devolution Bill, and it will not be acceptable or satisfactory, or possible, for any of us to be presented with this Bill at the tail end of this Session and to be expected to get it through at the drop of a hat. We are, if I may make so bold as to remind Lord Peart, not abolished yet.
My Lords, we shall continue to play a part as Her Majesty's loyal Opposition. As both the mover and the seconder of the humble Address have said, this is a very special year, and I must say that, whatever the merits or otherwise of the dispute between the BBC and its staff, I know that what happened this morning can have caused nothing but disappointment and dismay. I read in the Daily Telegraph this morning that the emergency strike committee were trying to work out ways to embarrass the Corporation without alienating the public. I do not think they have succeeded. I said just now that we were Her Majesty's loyal Opposition—loyal to the Queen in her splendidly successful Jubilee Year, which has given us the opportunity to show in some measure our admiration and gratitude for the stability that she has given us as a country and the service she has done us.
Moved, That this debate be now adjourned until Tuesday next.—(Lord Carrington.)
4.19 p.m.
Lord BYERS: My Lords, I rise to support from these Benches the Motion proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and to add my congratulations to the mover and seconder of the loyal Address on the manner in which they have discharged that important duty. May I also echo the sentiments that the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and both the mover and seconder put forward to the House about Her Majesty the Queen and the way in which she has discharged her tremendous responsibilities in this great Jubilee Year. The
noble Lord, Lord Carrington, referred, en passant, to Brighton. I must say that I agree with him that in the mover and seconder we have two very brave men indeed to stand up against the blackcloth of Brighton, the backcloth of an enraged proletariat baying for broken coronets, culminating in that very historic and very interesting democratic decision in which 1,200 delegates, representing 300,000 paid-up members, voted by 6½ million to 90,000 to abolish this House. I must say that, with a system like that, I can understand the aversion of the Government Front Bench to proportional representation. I also believe that the several delegates who cast the 90,000 votes were persuaded to do so by the brave and eloquent words of our Government Chief Whip, and we congratulate the noble Baroness on the way in which she discharged that duty. It was a pleasure to see her on television. I can only express the hope that this is not the sort of electoral system that the Government have in mind for the Scottish and Welsh Assemblies, and for the direct elections to Europe.
The noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede, is the third Baron. We were fortunate to have as a colleague on these Benches, for a very long period of time, his father for whom we had very great affection. He displayed all the stability, serenity and confidence which close association with the
Liberal Party always provides. I am sure that the Government will testify to that after their experience from March until today.
If I may say so, this is the best non-Socialist loyal Address we have ever had

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from a Labour Government. It is distinguished by the quality of the omissions. The first Baron, the noble Lord's grandfather, had a varied career. He was a Page of Honour to Queen Victoria and then Private Secretary to Campbell Bannerman when he was Prime Minister. He was a Liberal Party Member of Parliament for 10 years—and then the rot set in. He was a Labour Member of Parliament for only eight years and finally ended up as the Leader of the Opposition in the House of Lords. I will only say to the noble Lord that if he gets tired of the rough and tumble of the Labour Benches there is always a safe haven here: serenity, confidence and stability, everything that he would want, and which he will want in a few years' time. The noble Lord, Lord Parry, has impressed the House since his introduction two years ago with his knowledge of Welsh affairs and his interest in the Welsh community. I think it was singularly appropriate that he was chosen to speak today at the opening of a Session which heralds devolution for the Principality and for Scotland—measures, in our view, long overdue.
My Lords, before I conclude, I should like to endorse what the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, has said. I must express my personal sense of outrage at the churlish action of the Broadcasting Staffs Association in refusing to film and transmit this morning's Opening of Parliament. This film would have completed a wonderful record of the Jubilee Year. Some of us have had the pleasure of seeing the record which has been put together by the BBC so far. It is clearly one which will have tremendous appeal all over the world, in every part of the world. I can only say what a mean-minded bunch of people there must be to make a decision like that on an occasion like this in a year like this. Having said that—I believe that it should be said and I am glad the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, said what he said—I hope that the public will see in it a very grave error of judgment on the part of those who made it. We thank the noble Lords for their contribution today. I beg to support the Motion.
4.25 p.m.
The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Peart): My Lords, may I first join with the noble
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Lords, Lord Byers and Lord Carrington, in their regret at the action taken which prevented the broadcasting of our proceedings. After all, the public has been affected very badly. I should like to join the noble Lord, Lord Byers, in supporting the Motion moved by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington. I shall also join with them in their warm congratulations to the noble Lords, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Lord Parry, on their notable speeches. I should perhaps reassure the House on one point. I can say categorically that no sinister purpose lies behind the fact that a former chairman of the Greater London Council, Lord Pitt, seconded the Motion on the humble Address at the start of the last Session and another former chairman, the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, proposed the Motion this year. There is no plot, to my knowledge, for the Greater London Council to take over this House; although such designs may exist in other quarters.
The noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede, is well known to many both in and out of the House for his varied activities. Many have been mentioned today, but I doubt whether many can be aware of the full range of them. Attention has already been drawn to the noble Lord's long career in the service of local government in London, initially in the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, and later in the GLC where, as has been mentioned, he was the chairman. Parallel with this work has been the noble Lord's long association with the Fabian Society. I hope that he will not forget, despite the siren voices from the Liberal Party, that if he did join them he would still be supporting a Labour Government. May I say that the noble Lord, when he became chairman of the GLC, gave up his position as secretary of the Fabian Society. None was surprised that the new demands on him should have made this necessary. But it was then that the noble Lord showed his stamina by becoming chairman of the London Tourist Board. Not content with two chairmanships, he then added the chairmanship of the Greater London section of Age Concern and the chairmanship of the Greater London Citizens' Advice Bureaux.
Like the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, the noble Lord, Lord Parry, is associated with a particular part of the country, one somewhat larger in extent than Lord

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Ponsonby's although perhaps a little less densely populated. However, our Celtic friends have always managed to make up for lack of numbers in their noted eloquence. It came as no surprise that my noble friend displayed the same eloquence in seconding the Motion moved by the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby. Whether he will be called "Abe" after what has been said by a previous speaker this afternoon I do not know, but I think that he will always have a Welsh ring. Not for nothing is the noble Lord a member of the Welsh Arts Council. Even among his fellow countrymen, he has acquired a certain renown for his art of composing on the spur of the moment witty verses about individuals or occasions. I am relieved that the noble Lord's customary sense of occasion restrained him from composing such verses now, for I should have felt that I had to answer in kind.
In addressing the House this afternoon the noble Lord may have felt a sensation, which he must have experienced often in the past, of addressing a captive audience. He was a schoolmaster, as has been mentioned, and my noble friend must have given the benefit of his wisdom to many a captive audience in the past. Perhaps the only difference on this occasion was that, unlike some of the schoolchildren, perhaps, we were willingly held by the noble Lord.
From time to time this House comes under attack, sometimes from colleagues from another place and sometimes from outside. I would say only this. I am proud to be Leader of this House and I am confident that noble Lords of all Parties and non-Parties will continue in this Session to work hard; and, for very many Sessions to come, to give the benefit of their long and varied experience in many walks of life. I believe not only that this House has a job to do but that it does it well even when the conditions are unfavourable. May I say that I believe passionately—and it has been echoed today—that our system of constitutional Government has gained the admiration of the world. We have no need to apologise for this system of Government. We, the British people, have preserved and protected democracy.
I should like now to say a word about the coming Session. Noble Lords may feel that the programme indicated in the
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Queen's Speech has a familiar ring about it. Most of us would have expected that this House would already have passed through legislation on devolution and direct elections. As it is, these major constitutional Bills lie ahead of us. I cannot pretend that the House will not have to work hard when these Bills are considered. I have noted that the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, has said that we should not debate these Bills at the end of the Session but, rather, earlier on. I take the noble Lord's point on this. I cannot pretend, either, that it will be possible to spread the load over the Session as evenly as I should wish, but I shall do my best. This is a difficulty which is unavoidable when so much of the legislative work for one Session must be concentrated in a few really major Bills.
It is some consolation, however, that devolution is to be the subject of two Bills. I hope that that may enable us to spread the work a little when the three constitutional Bills reach this House. I can assure the House that I am aware of the problems it has faced when legislation has been received too late in the Session. I reaffirm what I said in referring to the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Carrington. I shall do all that I can to ensure that we receive these major Bills in time to give them the consideration that they deserve.
The House will find that it has plenty to do before the constitutional Bills are received, and Bills of weight and interest will be introduced in this House before Christmas. Indeed, considering the small number of Bills in the programme, an unusually high proportion will be introduced in this House. In particular, noble Lords will soon have an opportunity to consider a Bill on the functions and composition of the General Medical Council which was mentioned in the gracious Speech. Other Bills will also be introduced in this House before Christmas.
In the last Session, the House was able to see clearly how much valuable work was being done by the
European Communities Committee. Indeed, the Select Committee and its seven hard-working Sub-Committees received more favourable notice in the Press than this House is accustomed to. Later this afternoon I shall be moving a Motion to appoint the successor to the noble Baroness, Lady Tweedsmuir of Belhelvie, as Principal

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Deputy Chairman of Committees. I should like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to her work as Chairman of the European Communities Committee. I know that I am reflecting the feelings of all parts of the House in expressing the deep appreciation of the House for the elegance, good humour and hard work which she brought to this demanding task. It was with regret that Members of the House learned that she had had to resign through ill health. I know that all Members will have been pleased to learn that the noble Baroness is recovering. We miss her presence and look forward to her return to the House.
It will come as no surprise to noble Lords to learn that a number of reports of the Committee await your attention and will be debated before Christmas. There will be debates on classification, packaging, labelling of dangerous substances, contract negotiations away from business premises and youth employment, to name but a few. Next week I shall also be asking the House to reappoint the Bill of Rights Committee and the Committee on Practice and Procedure, and I am sure that the House will await their final reports with great interest.
I should like to close by saying how much I personally have enjoyed the celebration of Her Majesty's Jubilee this year. It is characteristic of the national spirit that, at a time of economic difficulties, the people of the United Kingdom have been united in a determination to enjoy themselves and to be seen to be enjoying themselves by participating in the hundreds of community celebrations which, without extravagant expense, were organised throughout the country in honour of Her Majesty. I am glad that leaders of all Parties have paid tribute to her today. Foreign observers were amazed to witness this display of what I can only describe as a national family
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feeling. Some observers from other countries found it hard to understand that the people of this country were not burying their heads in the sand, but were, on the contrary, demonstrating their capacity for a philosophical approach to difficulties which they felt should not interfere with their expressions of loyalty and affection for the Queen. I am sure that your Lordships will join with me in hoping that this characteristic British trait will continue to unite all the country's citizens in the future, whether devolved or not.
On Question, Motion agreed to, and debate adjourned accordingly until Tuesday next.

CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES
Lord PEART: My Lords, I beg to move that the Lord Aberdare be appointed to take the Chair in all Committees for this Session.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to, nemine dissentiente.

PRINCIPAL DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES
Lord PEART: My Lords, I beg to move that the Lord Greenwood of Rossendale be appointed Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees for this Session.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question. Motion agreed to, nemine dissentiente.
Stoppages in the Streets—Order to prevent, renewed.
Appeal Committees—Appointed.
Appellate Committees—Appointed.
House adjourned at twenty-three minutes before five o' clock.