HL Deb 26 May 1977 vol 383 cc1421-4

11.15 a.m.

Lord GAINFORD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have studied the letter from Mr. Gscheidle, West German Minister of Transport, dated 13th December 1976, addressed to the Ministers of Transport of the countries of the European Community; whether they agree with the proposition suggested; and what action they propose to take to ensure that more British freight traffic is carried by rail.

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government have carefully studied the letter from Herr Gscheidle, West German Minister of Transport. The road congestion problems referred to are, of course, particularly relevant in West Germany, which is a heavily trafficked transit country. It is likely, however, that this matter and the related railway problems will be discussed at the next Council of Transport Ministers which, it is hoped, will be held towards the end of June. The British Government decided in 1974 to encourage the transfer of freight traffic from road to rail by setting up the new system of financial support for the railways, and by providing grants under Section 8 of the Railways Act 1974 towards the cost of freight installations where these would benefit the local environment. Steps have also been taken to provide fairer competition between road and rail movement, through increases in the tax on heavy lorries and on diesel fuel.

Lord GAINFORD

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, the Minister, for that encouraging Answer. Is she aware, in relation to the factor which was particularly mentioned about a transit country, that Britain is becoming one as well, in view of the convenience of the Stranraer Ferry to Ireland? Freight from Europe is being brought into this country, ferried through our country on lorries, and causing considerable congestion in Southern Scotland, to the considerable concern of the residents there, so much so, I believe, that there is a movement to try to get the Dumfries-Stranraer railway reopened.

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, I accept that there is a certain amount of transit through this country, but nothing like as much as that in the Central European countries. We are of course always trying to transfer freight from road to rail, but so far as West Germany is concerned, the West German Railway network is more than 50 per cent. bigger than the United Kingdom's and its losses are four times as heavy as ours. We have invested a great deal of money in motorways. We are willing to help on the environmental side. If firms agree to put in their own sidings, we encourage them to use railways more than roads. But at this time our railways are much more suitable for transporting bulk materials than trying to provide a door-to-door service.

Lord POPPLEWELL

My Lords, can my noble friend give any indication when it is expected that the Government will issue their policy Statement on transport? Can she also say whether that Statement will include any improved measures suggested by the Government to transfer much of this heavy traffic from road to rail?

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, if I may take the last part of my noble friend's supplementary question first, I am sure that he would not expect me to anticipate what will be in the Government's White Paper when it is issued, and what will be contained in their recommendations so far as transferring freight from road to rail is concerned. With regard to the White Paper itself, we now expect that it will be published very shortly after the Recess, and no doubt in due course we shall have a debate in your Lordships' House which will cover this and other problems.

Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDE

My Lords, I should like to ask the noble Baroness whether any more bridges are being built over the railways. Is it not true that part of the problem of getting freight on to the railways is that the traffic cannot get under the rather low bridges?

Baroness STEDMAN

I cannot answer that point without notice, my Lords.

Lord LUCAS of CHILWORTH

My Lords, can the Minister shed any light on the number of permits granted to British hauliers to take heavy goods vehicles through these transit-congested countries, in proportion to the numbers of trucks emanating from those countries?

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, I am not able to supply the noble Lord with numbers, but I am able to assure him that my Secretary of State intends to start discussions on the whole subject of the EEC common transport policy at the Council meeting to which I have referred, at the end of June. We have welcomed the West German letter as a starting point for these discussions. Our ultimate aim is to achieve freedom of movement for road haulage within the European Community, but until we can gain that objective we want to get agreement to substantial increases, both in the Anglo-German bilateral quota and the EEC multilateral quota.

The Earl of KINNOULL

My Lords, since the 1974 policy to encourage freight on to the railways, could the noble Baroness say what is the current percentage of freight carried by the railways and, indeed, the canals, as well?

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, rail accounted for 26 per cent, of inland freight transport in Germany and 20 per cent, in the United Kingdom in 1975.

Lord SEGAL

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, by stressing the importance of through transport of freight by rail in Germany and other parts of the Continent, she is by inference making out a strong case for a reconsideration of the whole issue of the Channel Tunnel?

Baroness STEDMAN

That, my Lords, is another question.

Lord GISBOROUGH

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that many manufacturers expressly send their goods by road because they find that goods sent by rail very often get lost or delayed for unacceptable periods? Regrettable though this may be, it is a fact; and if the staff and management could make certain that goods sent by rail are delivered quickly and are not lost, then that would he the greatest help in getting more goods on to the railways.

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, that is a matter for the British Railways Board, and I am sure that they are conscious of the criticisms which the noble Lord has made.

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, are the Government aware that many of us do not regard increasing taxes on fuel as being the ideal way to encourage traffic to go back to the trains?

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, the noble Lord will no doubt be able to make that point more substantively when we have the debate on the White Paper.

Lord LEATHERLAND

My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the fact that in my district every morning I see huge lorries from France, Germany, the United States, Holland, Belgium, the Soviet Union and Bulgaria? Do these lorries, which are ruining our roads, make any contribution to our road fund?

Baroness STEDMAN

My Lords, I could not answer that question without notice, but I will make inquiries and will tell my noble friend.