POOL COMPETITIONS ACT 1971 (CONTINUANCE) ORDER 1977

HL Deb 23 May 1977 vol 383 cc1138-41

5.55 p.m.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL rose to move, That the draft Pool Competitions Act 1971 (Continuance) Order 1977, laid before the House on 10th May, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move that this draft order be approved.

The House may find it helpful if, in moving this draft order, I describe briefly its background. The Pool Competitions Act 1971 came into force on 27th July 1971 and was to run for an initial period of five years. However, Section 8 of the Act provides that the Act may, by order, be extended for periods of not more than a year at a time. No order may be made under Section 8 of the Act, however, unless it has first been approved in draft by Resolution of each House of Parliament. Noble Lords may recall that an order extending the 1971 Act was made last year, and the purpose of the draft order now before your Lordships is to extend the Act for a further period of one year.

The 1971 Act set up a system of licensing and controls for what were called charitable and sporting pools. These were competitions for prizes which benefited organisations supporting charities and sports. The distribution of prizes depended on the outcome of sporting events, especially football matches. The licensing and control system introduced by the Act is administered by the Gaming Board for Great Britain. The 1971 Act was introduced following a judgment by your Lordships' House that a particular competition of this kind did not constitute lawful pool betting, as the promoters had supposed, but was in fact an unlawful lottery. This was because, as a matter of substance, the prizes were not for making forecasts but were for holding numbers which happened to be lucky in a particular week.

My Lords, a number of charitable and sporting organisations had been supported by competitions of the kind I have mentioned. The Spastics Society and some cricket and football clubs derived substantial income from this particular source. The Government of the day therefore introduced the Pool Competitions Act 1971 in order to safeguard, for the time being, the interests of the charities and sporting clubs concerned. Although the number of bodies now relying on the 1971 Act to protect their fund-raising acts has decreased slightly in the last year or so, several continue to place substantial reliance on the "pools" for their income. The Act cannot, however, be regarded as a lasting arrangement, and noble Lords will be aware that the subject covered by the 1971 Act falls within the terms of reference of the Royal Commission on Gambling, which is carrying out, as your Lordships will know, a wide-ranging review of the law and practice relating to gambling. The Royal Commission was asked to give particular attention to the contribution made from the proceeds of gambling towards the support of other activities (including sports), the means by which this might be enhanced, and the conditions to be imposed. In considering what the future arrangements might well be, we shall need to take account of the report of the Royal Commission.

The Commission started its work in the early part of last year and I understand that it has made good progress. There is, however, still a good deal to be done and it would be premature to say when its report will be received. In all the circumstances, it seems to the Government necessary that the Pool Competitions Act 1971 be extended for a further period of one year, and I seek your Lordships' permission accordingly. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That the draft Pool Competitions Act 1971 (Continuance) Order 1977, laid before the House on 10th May, be approved.—(Lord Wells-Pestell.)

6 p.m.

Viscount LONG

My Lords, I am sure that the whole House is most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Wells-Pestell, for the information which he has given us and for the manner of his doing so. I feel that I should tread very carefully, because many of your Lordships probably do the pools, in one way or the other—like myself, the noble Lord does not do them—and outside Parliament a great many of the public are very keen on this type of betting. I notice that since 1971 two Governments have skated very carefully over this part of the Act, and have used this continuance order. Therefore, it could be a rather explosive situation if the public realised that we were going to try to whittle away some of the big dividends that are paid and which, without going too deeply into the subject, appear to be far too large.

The noble Lord was kind enough to tell us about the Royal Commission, which is still proceeding. But I should like to ask him how soon he expects this report to come out. I know that he feels a little vague about it, but I feel that the sooner the report comes out the quicker we can correct this part of the Act. I have one other question, which is rather a long-shot, because I know that these Commissions take time and one never knows exactly when they will complete their work. I should like to know what is the amount of money involved in this order; it must be enormous.

We on this side have no wish to delay this order and we will accept it for another year. We hope that the Royal Commission will soon be able to give an answer, in order that we can proceed. I am most grateful to the noble Lord and have no further points to raise.

6.4 p.m.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Viscount for his support of this measure. In answer to his first question, my recollection—I cannot give the exact wording—is that the Chairman of the Royal Commission on Gambling said that he hoped to be able to report in months, rather than years. If I am wrong, I will write to the noble Viscount about that, but I am sure that that is what he said. With regard to the amount, I think that the word "pool" here is rather misleading, in the sense that it does not include the football pools as we understand them, which show these fantastic wins in the newspapers every week. This has a very limited effect in a very restricted field.

But the aggregate annual turnover has shown a tendency to decrease since the Act was introduced in 1971. The most recent figure is in the region of £25 million, of which just under £4 million, or 15 per cent., is paid to the benefiting societies which fall into two main groups. One group is concerned with providing financial assistance to sport—that is, principally football clubs—and the other is concerned with charitable aims including, as I said, aid to the Spastics Society and to polio and cancer research. One pool competition, which originally supported cricket, now provides substantial aid to medical aims. The pool competitions attract a pool betting duty at the reduced rate of 33⅓ per cent. on turnover, less the contributions to the benefiting societies. That is about as much information as I have on this matter.

Viscount LONG

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that information, and I am most enlightened to learn that a certain amount of money is going to medical aid. I am most grateful to the noble Lord.

On Question, Motion agreed to.