§ 3.41 p.m.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, with the permission of the House, I should like to repeat a Statement on Rhodesia made this afternoon in another place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. The Statement is as follows:
"With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and that of the House, I will make a Statement about Rhodesia.
"Discussions of the Rhodesian question have taken place with the US Government over the past three weeks. I met Mr. Vance on 6th May. We were in full agreement on the best way to carry matters forward.
"Both Governments wish to reiterate their determination to work for the independence of Rhodesia under 258 majority rule in 1978. They have been encouraged by their contacts so far to believe that detailed consultations about an independence constitution and the necessary transitional arrangements could be a satisfactory way to achieve this. They have therefore agreed that Britian and the United States should now enter into a phase of intensive consultations with the parties.
"For this purpose, Her Majesty's Government have decided to establish a Consultative Group to make contact with the parties, which will visit the area as necessary, including Salisbury. It will be headed by Mr. J. A. N. Graham, Deputy Under-Secretary at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. He will leave for Africa next week.
"Mr. Vance has agreed to appoint a senior United States official to work with the Head of the British Consultative Group."
My Lords, that concludes the Statement.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, on behalf of my noble friends, I should like to thank the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Goronwy-Roberts, for this somewhat brief but nevertheless important and constructive Statement. We certainly welcome the realisation by the Government of the advisability and, indeed, the necessity of organising a Consultative Group to visit Rhodesia itself. We hope that this will imply, and at any rate allow for, some resident mission which will be able to stay in Salisbury under the auspices of, or within this particular group. We also welcome the co-operation of the American Government in this initiative; one which we have always regarded as imperative if some peaceful transfer to majority rule is to be achieved.
I wonder whether, when he replies, the Minister would give some assurance that the appointment of Mr. Graham, obviously a very distinguished Foreign Office official and one certainly to whom we wish every success in his task, in no way indicates that the personal involvement of the Foreign Secretary will be reduced in the question of settlement in Rhodesia, particularly of course following on his own visit to Southern Rhodesia which was an initiative that we welcomed on this side of the House.
259 We are concerned with the continued delay in reaching a settlement but realise that it is not a question of settling any fixed date. This is one that must work itself out. But we are very concerned with the continuing guerrilla attacks and the horrible destruction by all sides of innocent civilians in reaching a settlement. So, obviously, we hope for as speedy a conclusion as possible, although we do not say that any fixed time must be laid down. On this side of the House we certainly welcome the setting up of this Consultative Group. I wonder whether the Minister could also say in replying if it is possible at this stage to make any comment as to the powers of the Consultative Group, when there is reference to the "necessary transitional arrangements". As the noble Lord will be aware, we on this side of the House, and indeed I believe most noble Lords, are anxious that there should be some form of general consultation with all the peoples of Rhodesia in the setting up of any Government. I would therefore ask whether this Consultative Group would be able to make such a recommendation.
§ Lord GLADWYNMy Lords, I, too, should like to thank the Minister for repeating this Statement, which undoubtedly is encouraging so far as it goes. I have only two questions to ask. Is it still the objective to reconvene if possible, and when possible, the Geneva Conference? If that is so, is it still the intention, or is it not the intention, that when we convene there should be an American co-chairman, or has that idea been dropped?
Secondly, who exactly would be the parties referred to in the third paragraph of the Statement. It says that there shall be "intensive consultations with the parties". Would that be the so-called front line Presidents, on the one hand, and all political Parties in Rhodesia, including Mr. Mugabe? Or would it be impossible to rope in Mr. Mugabe in view of his attitude? Those are the only two positive questions I should like to ask.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness and to the noble Lord for the support they have given to this Statement and its objectives. In reference to what the noble Baroness said, the possibility of an outpost 260 in Salisbury emanating, as it were, from the Consultative Group is one for consideration in the light of the circumstances as they develop during the consultations. We certainly do not rule it out. We shall be glad to consider it. The question at the moment is perhaps somewhat premature, but it certainly has potential value. On the assurance the noble Baroness sought about the continued personal involvement of my right honourable friend, of course I can give that assurance without reservation. Mr. Graham is a high-ranking official of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office who works directly under the Secretary of State.
As to the powers of the Consultative Group, they are of course consultative. They have functions rather than powers. I would say they have the important function of conducting consultations with a wide range of interests so that they can report to my right honourable friend, and equally the American appointee will no doubt report pail passu to his own Minister. Finally, on the question of the transitional arrangements, certainly the consultations will seek to clarify what are the most hopeful bases for the transitional arrangements as well as for the establishment of majority rule in the sense that we have always pursued it.
May I briefly refer to Lord Gladwyn's two points. As to the objective to proceed by conference, whether or not in Geneva, or on the analogy of the Geneva Conference, I think this might wisely be left to the results of the Consultative Group's experience and report. No possibility of a follow-up is ruled out. As he asked which parties would be consulted, perhaps I might put it like this: certainly all parties and interests in Rhodesia, black and white—and by "parties" one does not necessarily restrict the term to political Parties—would be the first tier, as it were, of consultation. But beyond that, as a kind of second tier, there are important interests as I would call them—front line Presidents, Dr. Vorster and others outside Rhodesia—with whom it would be not only useful but necessary to conduct consultations, but in the first instance "parties" refers to those in Rhodesia.
§ 3.50 p.m.
Lord HOME of the HIRSELMy Lords, I wish to add to the welcome which 261 my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, have given to the appointment of this Consultative Group. The lesson of past events, and particularly of the Geneva Conference, has been that we must carry with us the opinion of the various sections inside Rhodesia; if there is to be a settlement, it must be a settlement endorsed by Rhodesians. From my personal knowledge, Mr. Graham will be of great help in these kind of negotiations.
In this context, of course, the co-operation of the United States, which was absent in the past, is an enormous strengthening factor and very much to be welcomed. Obvious questions remain. When will the guerrilla warfare be called off in order to enable any interim Administration which emerges through any agreement that is arrived at, really to take peaceful charge of operations for the future leading to independence? But such matters are not for today, and I should just like to add to the support which has been expressed by my noble friend and Lord Gladwyn.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I wish in turn warmly to thank the noble Lord, Lord Home of the Hirsel, for his contribution, which, as the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, described the other night, is always statesmanlike.
§ Lord GLADWYNI certainly did, my Lords!
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSIndeed the noble Lord did, my Lords, and I nodded in warm agreement. I strongly agree that a settlement can only be one endorsed in the first place by the peoples of Rhodesia. The consultative process is designed in the first instance to ensure that basis for settlement. I equally warmly welcome what Lord Home said about the immense value, indeed the necessity, of the fullest United States co-operation, in this as in so many other matters of a constructive character, and I am glad to say to the House that we are assured of their fullest co-operation.
§ Baroness GAITSKELLMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether, until the African leaders have welcomed both the objective and this committee which is to be set up, it will ever get off the ground?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, my information is that this move, this Consultative Group, will be accepted and even welcomed by the wide range of African opinion. It has indeed been sufficient for my right honourable friend to make the Statement of Intention to set up this group, which will leave next week.