§ 2.45 p.m.
§ Baroness MASHAM of ILTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what they intend to do about the increase of tuberculosis in England.
993§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the incidence of tuberculosis in England as a whole has been declining, though it is high among various immigrant groups. The Joint Committee on Vaccination and immunisation has recommended that immigrant children should be vaccinated by a substance known as BCG, either as soon as practicable after entry into this country, or at birth if they are in fact born in the country. This advice was circulated to all doctors by the Chief Medical Officer of Health in my Department.
§ Baroness MASHAM of ILTONMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Minister for that helpful Answer. May I ask him what, if any, screening routines exist for immigrants entering our country?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, there is some difficulty in replying on this matter. I know that the noble Baroness is talking about screening, but my information is that the vaccinating of all immigrants would not be of very great benefit, as it has been found that the majority of adults from countries with high incidence of tuberculosis are already immune from the disease. Children, who can best benefit, would do so most at the place of settlement. In any case the compulsory vaccination of immigrants is not provided for under current legislation, and because of this it is very difficult to do anything in the matter.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, while obviously compulsory vaccination cannot be insisted upon, can my noble friend give an assurance that where the advice to vaccinate is not complied with after a suitable interval, there will be a follow-up in such cases and further directions issued?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I should have to look into the matter raised by the noble Baroness (which seems to be a valid one) to see to what extent there is any screening, and whether any advice is given, because it seems to me that if there is not, then this is a matter which should be investigated. If screening should take effect and produce what I might call unpleasant information, then obviously something ought to be done to see that vaccination immediately follows. 994 But this is a matter that I should like to take back and look into.
§ The Lord Bishop of SOUTHWARKMy Lords, can the noble Lord give any statistics concerning the number of beds available for patients who are suffering in this way, and of patients who require hospital treatment?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLI am afraid that without notice I cannot give those statistics, my Lords.
§ Baroness MASHAM of ILTONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord one further question? What screening or checks are there on kitchen staff working in schools? Perhaps the noble Lord is not aware that in my daughter's school there was a case of TB in the kitchen staff.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I should like to say, with great respect, that that point is very wide of the Question. It is a specific matter which I should have to look into.
§ Lord PLATTMy Lords, was not the supplementary question of the noble Baroness concerned with screening? I think that has been agreed, and, if so, surely vaccination is not the answer to it. The positive case needs treatment. Is it not the case that with modern treatment the patient can very quickly be put into a state in which he no longer communicates the disease to others, with the public being thus protected?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I accept what the noble Lord has said, and I have already given an undertaking to the House that I will look into the whole question of screening, to see what in fact is being done.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, is the noble Lord in a position to give any figures as to the extent to which contemporaneously the extension of this disease is caused by non-white immigration?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLNo, my Lords, I am not in a position to give any statistics at all. I have not come prepared with any, but I think that I can partially answer the noble Lord by saying that the high incidences of tuberculosis among certain 995 immigrants are notably from Pakistan, Bangladesh, India and Africa.
§ Lord TAYLOR of MANSFIELDMy Lords, can my noble friend say how many sanatoria and hospitals exclusively for the treatment of tuberculosis have been closed recently?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I cannot give information like that; I have not got the statistics. I am just sorry I am not able to do so.