§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps have been or are being taken to deal with the misuse of assistance given to housing associations as exposed by the present revelations in relation to assistance given by the G.L.C.
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, it is primarily the responsibility of local authorities to ensure that proper use is made of the funds which they make available to housing associations. The Department is considering the need for further guidance, particularly in the context of responsibility for the homeless.
Lord JANNERMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply and while she will be aware that everybody appreciates the importance of the work of those housing associations which are doing a splendid job, may I ask whether she is aware that people are concerned about the fact that this incident occurred? Is it possible for the Government to ensure that, for example, the National Association of Housing Associations, the National Federation, or the Housing Corporation, shall be entitled to make sure that, when housing associations apply for grants, it is established that they are either registered or are reputable people?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I share the support for housing associations mentioned by my noble friend. The Government are convinced that housing associations which are registered and controlled by the Housing Corporation 754 have played, and will continue to play, a very valuable part in helping local authorities to cope with the stress area rehabilitation and the needs of the homeless and the underprivileged. As I understand it, the Greater London Council has powers under its Act by which it can make monies available to various voluntary organisations to do some minor rehabilitation to some low standard housing. This was done under these powers and not by means of a housing association. When the new Bill on homelessness comes before this House and eventually gets approval and agreement, the Department will issue a code of guidance in which it will stress the importance of local authorities checking with housing associations to make sure that they are dealing with registered bodies.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEHowever that may be, my Lords, and to come down to brass tacks, may I ask the noble Baroness whether the Government are really convinced that the scandal, to which the subject of the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Janner, has given rise, is not a question for the Director of Public Prosecutions or a tribunal under the Tribunals of Inquiry Evidence Act?
§ Baroness STEDMANYes, my Lords; I admit that I did not see the television programme, but I have read reports of it. While we accept that what was shown in that television programme gave cause for concern—I am sure it did to every Member of your Lordships' House—I would remind the noble and learned Lord that we saw only one side of it. The GLC is now in negotiation with Yorkshire Television for an opportunity to put its side of the matter. Despite what the noble and learned Lord has said, before this event one of the associations concerned had been referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions. I understand that both of the housing associations which were referred to have now been referred to the DPP.
Lord JANNERMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend to reconsider what is being done at present? Although she is aware, as we all are, of the tremendous importance of housing associations, it is essential, as the Government are subsidising these associations, that they should 755 have considerable regard to ensuring that housing associations which receive grants consist of reputable people.
§ Baroness STEDMANYes, my Lords.
Baroness VICKERSMy Lords, in view of the fact that not only local government contributes to this work but that these organisations also collect money from various individuals, may I ask the Minister whether these organisations are registered under the Charities Act? Are they duly inspected?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, those Organisations which are registered with the Housing Corporation are subject to very stringent controls; the problem arises with regard to the unregistered ones and where local authorities do not always take the trouble to check that the associations are registered. The new code of guidance which we will be issuing shortly will stress to local authorities the need to check that the organisations which they are using are reputable and, where possible, are registered with the Housing Corporation.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, is it not a fact that not every local authority has felt bound to engage a housing association to assist in the building of council houses and to provide accommodation for those in need? In other words, is it not true to say that many local authorities do not engage housing associations but resort within their own authorities to what is known as direct labour?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, that is another question, but the housing associations have done an extremely good job with many local authorities. We hope that they will continue to do so and that their services will still be asked for by local authorities.