COMMONS AMENDMENT (Hansard, 29 March 1977)

§ Lord KIRKHILL
My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 11. This is simply a drafting Amendment to bring Section 166 of the 1972 Act into line with the new stop notice provisions in Clause 4.

Lord CAMPBELL of CROY
My Lords, as this is the last Amendment—for we have already discussed Amendment No. 12—I should like to ask the noble Lord, Lord Kirkhill, whether he can tell us about the equivalent Bill applying to England and Wales. I gave him notice of this some days ago because it is one of the most important matters arising from the Bill. We are making changes in the town and country planning procedures for Scotland and in recent years there has been an aim by both Parties that have been in Government to try to promote uniformity in the planning procedures North and South of the Border. Therefore, we inquired what was happening in England and Wales, and the noble Lord, Lord Kirkhill, told us that the Government were about to give their support to a Private Member's Bill in another place. That became the Bill introduced by my honourable friend Mr. Dudley Smith, and it had its Second Reading on 28th January. I should be grateful if the noble Lord could tell us briefly how he sees progress on that Bill. From the point of view of developers 808 and those engaged in housing and many other subjects affected by planning, it is of some importance that, if possible, the procedures North and South of the Border should be similar if not precisely the same; otherwise it leads to all kinds of difficulties.
The Government have made it clear that the intention is to try to make the change more or less at the same time in Scotland and in England and Wales, but if that is to be done it depends on progress with Mr. Dudley Smith's Bill, which I am glad to say obtained its Second Reading because he was one of the fortunate Members in the Private Members' Ballot. It also depends on how that Bill fares and the support that the Government are prepared to give it in its later stages in another place.

§ Lord KIRKHILL
My Lords, I can tell the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, that the Government are continuing their support of Mr. Dudley Smith's Bill in another place. I should point out that the Scottish Bill and the English Bill have differences; they are not exactly the same. Of course in part this stems from the fact that in Scotland, at least in some aspects of our Governmental activity, we are, we think, occasionally one step ahead of those South of the Border. Perhaps that is a personal view, but I think it is one that could be sustained. I think that the only significant difference between the two Bills at the moment, apart from the fact that the Scottish Bill is rather wider in its impact, is that in Scotland we have abandoned the 12 months' limit, whereas in the English Bill this is retained. We decided that we would accept the point which the Opposition had put in that regard so far as the Scottish Bill was concerned. With regard to the English Bill, I understand that the Department of the Environment and others have listened to serious representations from the CBI and have taken a rather different decision. But surely that lies within the reasonable purview of the Ministers concerned, and we think that we are moving in the correct direction on the Scottish Bill.

Lord CAMPBELL of CROY
My Lords, before the noble Lord sits down, I should like to say that this is not so much a question of the legislation being exactly 809 the same; as I tried to make clear, Scots law is different from law in England and Wales, and one does not expect it to be the same. But when a major change of principle is being adopted on one side of the Border, it is highly inconvenient if it is not to apply on the other side. So far as Scotland is concerned, industry could be adversely affected if it found itself dealing with what was to it quite strange procedure if that was not being carried out South of the Border as well, and universally in the United Kingdom. I was glad to hear what the noble Lord said. I made this inquiry to find out whether there were any snags arising which would stop the equivalent legislation—not exactly the same legislation —South of the Border.

§ Lord KIRKHILL
My Lords, I can only confirm that thus far in regard to the Scottish Bill we have attempted to be reasonably flexible.