§ 3.27 p.m.
§ The Earl of KINNOULLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in the public interest, they will instruct the Price Commission not to accept the Post Office's proposal to increase postal charges this summer as forecast.
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I cannot anticipate what findings the Price Commission will make on the proposals. When 632 my right honourable friend receives a report on the proposals from the chairman of the Price Commission, it will be considered.
§ The Earl of KINNOULLMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that reply. Is he aware that, on 14th March, Her Majesty's Government stated in another place that the Price Commission had considered the proposals and that they came within the Price Code, and that the Government did not wish to interfere?
Lord ORAMYes, my Lords, I am aware of that Statement by my honourable friend Mr. Maclennan. If the noble Earl consults yesterday's Hansard, he will find that Mr. Maclennan has answered a Question for Written Answer, admitting that that was wrong and that the Price Commission have not considered these proposals.
Lord JANNERMy Lords, will my noble friend take such steps as are within his power to try to prevent any further rise in postal charges? Does he realise that a large number of people are being badly affected by the prices being charged at present? Family connections are being very much disturbed; people who want to get into contact with their friends from time to time, particularly at festival times, find it extremely difficult because they cannot get in touch by way of transport because the cost is too heavy, and the only form of contact that they have is by means of the post. Will he please bring that to the notice of the Post Office so that, instead of increasing the charges at this stage, they decrease them?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I am sure that all noble Lords will have sympathy with the sentiments expressed by my noble friend. However, I am sure that he will also be aware of the need of the Post Office to cover their costs and to break even in their operations.
§ Baroness YOUNGMy Lords, in his consideration of this, will the noble Lord also bear in mind not only that it is extremely inconvenient for individuals to have to pay increased postal charges, but that it has a deplorable effect on the finances of charities, and that this, 633 coupled with the ending of the Sunday collections, means that it is a more expensive, but less good, service?
Lord ORAMYes, my Lords. These are important considerations which my right honourable friend will no doubt have in mind, but he cannot give consideration to this matter until the Price Commission have decided whether these increases are within the Price Code.
§ The Earl of KINNOULLMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that the proposals of the Post Office to increase its charges within weeks of withdrawing the Sunday collection permanently will somewhat tarnish the Post Office in the eyes of the users and reduce their sympathy?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, the Post Office is, as I have said, making every effort to break even with its postal services and reductions in services and the proposed increases are made with this end in view. I would make the point that the proposed increases in the letter post are only 7 per cent.: the last rise was something like 18 months ago, so that, regrettable though any increases might be, they are modest by comparison with the rise in the retail price index.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, in considering the question of increases in postal charges, can the noble Lord say why a letter from Kensington to me in Chelsea took from the 19th until the 23rd of this month to arrive?
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, I wonder whether the Minister and the Government could impress on the Post Office that it is not only a question of an increase in postal rates? It is also the steadily deteriorating service in the delivery of mail. Is the Minister aware that living in central London, I find that second-class postage takes on average four to five days to arrive, and that first-class postage by no means arrives the next day? Can the Minister do anything to help the consumer—which is all of us—in bringing home this fact to the Post Office?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, there is little that I personally can do; but there is the users' committee, of which my noble friend Lord Peddie is chairman, and that committee has very much in mind the kind of consideration that my noble friend has just voiced.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, will my noble friend bear in mind that the telephone service makes a huge profit every year, and as the telephone and the letter are alternative methods of communication cannot a subsidy be paid from the telephone service profits to help the writers of letters?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, it has been the practice in the Post Office to treat the postal and the telecommunications businesses as entirely separate accounting units, and it is my view that it would be inappropriate to require those who use the telephone to subsidise those who use the post.
§ The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Peart)My Lords, I sense that it is the feeling of noble Lords that we should now proceed to the next business. We have had a good innings on this Question.