HL Deb 22 March 1977 vol 381 cc408-11

4.2 p.m.

The MINISTER of STATE, NORTHERN IRELAND OFFICE (Lord Melchett) rose to move, That the draft Gas (Northern Ireland) Order 1977, laid before the House on 1st March, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, the existing code of gas legislation in Northern Ireland is extremely complex, consisting of 15 pieces of legislation made during the past 130 years. This order consolidates this legislation into one instrument. This will have the two-fold effect of removing several archaic Acts from the Statute Book, and providing a more comprehensible legislative code. The provisions have been updated and amended, where necessary, to bring them into line with legislation in Great Britain, particularly in the safety and consumer protection fields. There are also new provisions for bringing the functions and staff of the gas meter testing station under Government control; for introducing quality control of gas, and for enabling powers in relation to metrication corresponding to Section 41 of the Gas Act 1972.

Article 3 of the order applies to the gas undertakers a gas supply code, which is detailed in Schedule 1. This is based on legislation in force since the midnineteenth century, but it has been modernised and supplemented to make it very similar to those provided for the Northern Ireland Electricity Service and the British Gas Corporation under their relevant legislation. The position on debt is clarified so that, while the final sanction of disconnection is reasserted, it may be exercised only after the expiration of 28 days from making the demand in writing, and 7 days after giving notice of intention to cut off supply. Gas and electricity industries in Northern Ireland are currently considering the adoption of a code of practice similar to that in operation in other parts of the United Kingdom, whereby powers of disconnection will be used with discretion and only after considering the financial position of the debtor.

As is usual, this order was circulated in draft to interested parties. All the comments made were of a minor nature, and these have been taken into account in preparing the version of the order which I now ask your Lordships to consider. There is nothing in the order which anticipates the findings of the British Gas Corporation's study team which will shortly submit its final report on the Northern Ireland gas industry. I believe that this order will be widely welcomed in Northern Ireland for consolidating and clarifying a complex and detailed body of legislation. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That the draft Gas (Northern Ireland) Order 1977, laid before the House on 1st March, be approved.—(Lord Melchett.)

4.5 p.m.

Viscount LONG

My Lords, I am sure that the whole House is very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, for the information which he has given us on this Northern Ireland gas order. We welcome it, because it makes the provisions more modern and streamlined, in line with the position in the United Kingdom. I should have thought that that in itself would make it much easier for officials to administer the legislation covering Northern Ireland. What is quite amazing is the number of different Acts which this one order incorporates; I believe it consolidates nine whole Acts and parts of three others, all in one go. The noble Lord said that this order takes account of metrication, which is very important indeed. It also covers the supply of gas, the compulsory laying of gas pipes, the compulsory acquisition of land and penalties for breach of any order. It is interesting to see how this has been brought about in one order. I wish that we could have an order like this to cover much of the legislation which has been going through in the last year or so.

There are only a few points which I should like to make, which are these. In looking through the part of the order dealing with the compulsory acquisition of land, I could not find out—and perhaps the noble Lord can enlighten me—whether the public is still allowed to have a public inquiry in the event of gas undertakers crossing someone's land. The noble Lord informed us that there is still a period of 14 days' notice, but I wonder whether there is still a right to a public inquiry. Secondly, how will the gas undertakers be able to pay for metrication? The cost of dealing with all the gas meters in Northern Ireland will be quite phenomenal, so I wonder how much the Government think it will cost and how long it will take.

Lastly, we in the United Kingdom now have natural gas and are trying to use that more and more. I know that this is an energy matter, but I wonder whether the noble Lord can say whether Northern Ireland has, or is to have, its own natural gas such as we have in the United Kingdom, which they would find very useful. I shall not delay the House any further.

4.9 p.m.

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, if I may first take the last point on the question of natural gas, this is one of the possibilities that has been mooted in the context of the British Gas Corporation's study team which, as I said in my opening remarks, will be shortly submitting its final report on the Northern Ireland gas industry to the Secretary of State, and I think it would be wise to await the receipt of that report before making any comments. Desirable as it would be for Northern Ireland to have a supply of natural gas, I am afraid that there is not much that any of us can do about it if there is no natural gas there. There have been suggestions made about piping natural gas across the Irish Sea to Northern Ireland, but how practicable or feasible that is I honestly do not know. It is one of the aspects on which the study team will no doubt be commenting, if they think it worth while.

The noble Viscount also asked me about metrication. I do not have any figures on cost, but would make the point that the powers given in the order are only enabling powers; they do not provide for the undertakers necessarily to introduce metrication, but if any figures on costs are available I will certainly let the noble Viscount know. I rather doubt, however, whether anybody has yet got that far.

The first point which the noble Viscount raised with me was the question of public inquiries. My understanding is that the order, as the noble Viscount has pointed out, is mainly consolidation, with the exception of the few modifications which I mentioned in my opening remarks. Public inquiries are catered for in exactly the same way as previously; they are provided for in the order. I do not have with me the reference, but I can give the noble Viscount an assurance that public inquiries are provided for. If the noble Viscount would like me to let him know at exactly what point in the order this provision is to he found, I could no doubt do so afterwards.

On Question, Motion agreed to.