§ 2.48 p.m.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the advertisement in the magazine Nature by the Microbial Products Section, Microbiological Research Establishment, Porton, was fully authorised by the Government; and whether it is now Government policy to sell bacteria and toxic products on commercial terms.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, advertisements in Nature by the Microbiological Research Establishment, Porton, were fully authorised. It has been the policy of succeeding Governments over many years to sell, on commercial terms, and under arrangements which have proved perfectly safe, biological materials for use in civil scientific research.
§ Lord HALEMy Lords, is it not a fact that in the official statement it was conceded that the item staphylococcal entero toxins had definite toxic possibilities, and that reference was made to animal viruses without going on to say that one of the items was monkey cells prepared for viral DNA extraction—and those three letters are of some significance? In view of the unique potential of this gifted institution for protecting large areas from disease—Lassa disease, Marburg disease—is it not a little unfortunate that we are trying to get a few pence back 239 by exporting monkey cells to, say, Uganda; or does the Foreign Office give advice on destinations?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I think I can allay the noble Lord's apprehensions on this matter. For those few products which are not completely harmless, safety is fully ensured by a combination of three factors: knowing the customer, whether the customer is in this country or in another country, regulating the quantity supplied and ensuring safe transmission. Those three precautions are, of course, part of the very stringent international regulations which govern the transfer of such substances, to which this country adheres very carefully.
§ Lord PLATTMy Lords, will the Minister kindly explain some of the points that he has just made? If this is done only under the strictest of precautions, why are they necessary if the material is harmless? Under what rules or regulations do the Government control this?— because I understand from the first Answer that they do. Does not the mere fact of advertising suggest that these materials are available to anyone who cares to purchase them?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, no; I do not think so. The fact of advertising arises from a development and is consonant with the decision, of which noble Lords will be aware, to confine the MRE to civil research. The precautions that I have described of course apply across the board but, to quote myself, it is for those relatively few products, one or two of which my noble friend mentioned, which are not completely harmless that the precautions are particularly applied. It is right that we should apply them across the board in this kind of situation. They are necessary in regard to only some of these substances.
§ Lord HALEMy Lords, from his own experience is not the noble Lord personally aware of the special problems of microbiological investigation in the tropics? Has he not received reports from the Volta area of special problems? Is not this institution uniquely equipped—and I use the word "uniquely" precisely—to deal with Lassa fever and Marburg disease 240 and other tropical diseases? Does it not also have potential power to provide a European Economic Community team for dealing with toxic disasters such as the one at Seveso? Is it not the fact that the institution is frightened of the Policy Distributions Council and of its future in view of the hiving off of the mass production of poisons—genocidal poisons —under the euphemistic description of "defence"? Could not the noble Lord ensure that this unique institution, with its immense potential, is put to the best possible use?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, yes of course it will be constantly and continually the intention and duty of Her Majesty's Government to ensure that the most complete control and safety precautions are taken over this class of research. I have sought to say with some precision to the House this afternoon that in relation to the matters raised in this Question there is no reasonable cause for apprehension. As to the remarks my noble friend made about the quality of the research conducted in the two institutions at Porton Down, I particularly agree with what he said about the immense possibilities for progressive and constructive uses of a great deal of the information which this excellent team acquires in the course of its researches.