HL Deb 15 March 1977 vol 380 cc1469-78

3.38 p.m.

The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Peart)

My Lords, may I first say to the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, with the leave of the House, how glad we are to see him back. I am sure that he must have had a fascinating time in Africa and in other countries. We welcome him back.

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I should like to repeat a Statement now being made in another place by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, on his visit to the United States and Canada, on which he was accompanied by my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary. The Statement is as follows:

"This was my first opportunity of hearing at first hand the views of President Carter and the new Administration, a team which carries the heavy responsibility of guaranteeing the overall security of the Western democracies; and of supervising and guiding the world's most powerful economy—it is very much a national interest to strike up a close and effective working relation-ship.

"As my visit occurred during the British presidency of the European Community, I was able to explain to President Carter the attitudes of the Nine to some of the issues we discussed and the preoccupations of the Community.

"The President has set in hand new initiatives on a number of different fronts and it was stimulating to observe a positive approach to some longstanding international problems and a willingness to take a new look at the long-term objectives and low they should be achieved. We had no difficulty in identifying the major problems facing the Western world, and we shared, to a very considerable degree, a common approach towards the way in which they should be tackled. The President spoke warmly of the special relationship between America and Britain, and it is my intention that the Government should work closely with his Administration. We must also contribute to the maximum collaboration between the United States and the European Community, and President Carter made clear that he shares this purpose, and desires to see the strengthening of the Community.

"The President also attached great importance to full consultation and co-operation with America's Allies in the North Atlantic Alliance and I warmly welcomed this.

"During my talks with Prime Minister Trudeau, who has himself recently visited Washington, I was glad to learn that he agreed generally with this judgment.

"In both Washington and Ottawa the emphasis of the discussions was on economic problems, including cur aims and prospects for the Downing Street Summit Conference to be held in May. I have every reason to believe that it is the intention of both President Carter and Prime Minister Trudeau that the preparations for this Conference which have already begun should be carried forward in a constructive manner, and that we should be ready to adopt a positive approach to the major issues when we meet with the other leaders of the leading Western industrialised countries.

"We discussed the pressing problems—of employment, inflation and economic recession. I cannot claim that we discovered any panacea for these problems. But the important point is that there is an identity in our assessment. We recognised that it would take a considerable time to reduce the present high levels of world unemployment and agreed on the high priority we should give in this situation to the problem of unemployment among school-leavers and among young people generally.

"We agreed on the need to tackle the problems caused by large and persisting imbalances in the world's external payments system. I suggested that these imbalances, particularly as they affect less developed countries, call for an expansion of the official facilities for financing balance of payments deficits. This is an area in which I look for major advances in the period ahead. President Carter and Prime Minister Trudeau both agreed that this problem should be examined as a matter of urgency.

"We discussed whether the prospects for the multilateral trade negotiations would be set back by the present world recession. We agreed that general protectionism could only serve to delay the world's emergence from the present economic recession.

"I advanced the view that if the United States, as the largest trading nation, was unable to resist pressures for protectionism at home this would not only slow down progress in the negotiations but would encourage others to follow.

"We discussed the problems of relations between industrialised and developing countries which are being intensively examined in various international bodies. President Carter and I were agreed on the importance of adopting an understanding and constructive approach to the aspirations and needs of developing countries which are reflected in the issues to be discussed at the ministerial meeting of the Conference on International Economic Co-operation in May.

"I was able to inform him of the discussions in the Community on the preparation of a common position for the negotiations.

"In Ottawa, too, I was able to have useful discussions on these issues in the light of the special Canadian interest resulting from their position as co-chairman of the Conference on International Eeconomic Co-operation. In both capitals there is an encouraging desire to ensure a successful outcome of the ministerial meeting.

"President Carter and I discussed at length the subject of human rights, on which, as the House knows, the President feels deeply and has expressed his views in a forthright manner.

"It was clear that President Carter had given very careful thought to his approach to this matter, and he welcomed the speech made recently by the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary.

"In the area of East-West relations, we agreed on the importance of adopting a non-polemical approach to the Belgrade Conference and I was assured that the President is anxious to work closely with the Nine and with all their NATO partners with a view to a serious dialogue with the East at Belgrade. Europe need have no doubt that the new Administration shares a desire for improved detente between East and West, while maintaining adequate security.

"We discussed the problems of nuclear non-proliferation and arms control to which President Carter attaches high priority. Both of us subscribe to the same objectives.

"These are complicated issues but vitally important for the future security of the world.

"President Carter is well aware of the difficulties—political, technical and sometimes commercial—which lie before us in the search for solutions. But we were in complete agreement that renewed efforts must be made to resolve them.

"We also discussed the situation in various parts of the world in which we have a mutual interest in helping to create or maintain stability. On the future of Cyprus, we welcomed the resumption of intercommunal talks at the meeting which is to take place shortly in Vienna.

"On the Middle East, President Carter informed me fully of the United States' latest ideas on the matter and I emphasised the importance of keeping closely in touch with each other over developments in this area.

"In addition to the general talk I had with President Carter about Southern Africa as a whole, the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary had detailed talks on Rhodesia and Namibia with Mr. Vance. The Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary informed them that he will visit Southern Africa during the Easter Recess to have a first hand discussion with those most directly concerned.

"President Carter confirmed that he is prepared to give his full support to our efforts to find a basis for a settlement, and that he will continue the co-operation with us which was begun under the previous Administration.

"I took the opportunity of emphasising to the President our concern that Concorde should be allowed to land in New York.

"The President has indicated that he is in favour of a trial period. Judging from some of the statements which were made while I was there, it seems that American opinion may be moving slightly in our favour.

"I end this report by saying that I am confident that President Carter will give a positive lead to the West in areas where American leadership is necessary and welcome; that the Administration's new ideas and initiatives are tempered by realism, and confident that the President recognises the importance of fostering and strengthening his ties with America's allies by regular contacts and consultation.

"I look forward to welcoming him and Prime Minister Trudeau as well as the other leaders to the Downing Street Conference in May".

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

3.49 p.m.

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, the House will be grateful to the noble Lord the Leader of the House for repeating the Prime Minister's Statement. Perhaps I might be allowed at the outset to thank the noble Lord for welcoming me on my return; at any rate, when one travels about the world one learns that we are not the only people who have problems. The Statement is in general terms and is really a list of the topics which the Prime Minister discussed with the President. And of course that is all it could be; I do not think one would expect any epoch-making decisions to come out of a meeting of this sort. It shows that there was a wide-ranging discussion an all the matters which affect us, and shows perhaps even more that the Prime Minister has established a successful personal relationship with President Carter, and that must be in the national interest.

I shall make only two points. I was particularly glad to hear in the Prime Minister's Statement of the stress that the President laid on NATO, because President Carter is to some extent an unknown quantity. We do not know all his thoughts or policies; he made very few commitments in his campaign. We are certainly extremely glad to know that he attaches such significant importance to the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.

Secondly, I should like to welcome the proposal that the Foreign Secretary should go round the African countries. I do not know whether the noble lord can tell us whether the Foreign Secretary will take any proposals. It will certainly be true, I believe, that any British Foreign Secretary visiting Southern Africa will be expected to have some proposals with him, because I found that, talking to the leaders of the various countries, the general feeling there was that they expected the British Government to do something because it was the British Government's responsibility. Nevertheless, I hope that Dr. Owen will have a successful trip and I should also like to ask the noble Lord whether Dr. Owen intends lo visit Rhodesia or to see Mr. Smith. Whatever the Foreign Secretary's opinion may be of Mr. Smith and the Rhodesian Government, no negotiated settlement will be possible without Mr. Smith and the Rhodesian regime, so it will be very much to the advantage of the Foreign Secretary if he can see Mr. Smith.

3.53 p.m.

Lord BYERS

My Lords, in thanking the noble Lord the Leader of the House for repeating the Statement, I should like to welcome back the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and to tell him that this House has been a much quieter place since he left. We are looking forward to his resuming his normal duties. I believe that the whole House will be delighted that the Prime Minister's visit went off so well. We on these Benches welcome the establishment of a friendly and effective relationship with the new regime in the United States, though I must say that I am always a little worried when people talk about a "special relationship" because it does not make life any easier with our other allies, particularly those in the EEC. However, I think that the Statement has the matter well in perspective and I feel that it has been very well drafted to cover that problem.

We very much welcome the confirmation that the President will visit this country in May and, since he is obviously an exponent of open politics, I wonder whether we could not devise some method by which he could meet more politicians of all Parties, industrialists and others for more intimate and meaningful discussions rather than the normal truncated and formal exchanges of view that take place. That also goes for Prime Minister Trudeau. I believe that we have here an opportunity of extending the relationship with Canada and the United States to a lower level in, as it were, the top bracket of those of us who are fascinated by the problems with which we have to deal and who would be very much helped if we could have exchanges of views with people who are at the centre of things. I hope that Concorde will not be allowed to dominate Anglo-American relationships. Our relationships with Canada, the United States and other countries are much more long term and worldwide than the problems of Concorde, important as those are.

3.56 p.m.

Lord PEART

My Lords, may I thank both noble Lords for their kind remarks about the Statement and about the success of the meeting of the Prime Minister with President Carter and Prime Minister Trudeau. Obviously, I agreed with the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, when he said that the Statement must inevitably be a general one. He is quite right to stress the importance of NATO. I know that, as Minister of Defence and subsequently, the noble Lord has always been an advocate of support for NATO. I support it myself and that is Government policy. Of course it is good that we should know that the American President supports our approach and is a strong advocate of NATO.

The noble Lord, Lord Carrington, asked me about the visit of the Foreign Secretary to Africa. My right honourable friend made a statement which was reported in today's Press, indicating that he was going to South Africa, Botswana, Zambia, Mozambique, Tanzania and Nigeria. I agree that he did not mention Rhodesia in the Press report that I have here, but I will certainly convey to my right honourable friend, the views of the noble Lord about the need to have talks with Rhodesia. After all, Rhodesia is the key to the situation. On the question of whether or not the Foreign Secretary will go with proposals, I understand—and he stressed this yesterday—that he will not be making any specific new British initiatives to break the deadlock. However, I believe that it is important that he should go to meet people there, for he is only a new Minister. I hope that he will be successful in assessing correctly and positively the situation in Southern Africa.

The noble Lord, Lord Byers, thought that we should play down the "special relationship" a little because of the views of other Powers with whom we have to deal. However, I still think that it is good to have a special relationship and I believe that many of our other allies understand this. On the question of more open politics when the President's visit takes place, that is something that we shall have to consider. I would agree that it is often right that we should enable industrial leaders and others in our community informally to meet distinguished visitors like President Carter and Prime Minister Trudeau when they visit us. That is a matter for others to decide, but we note the suggestion.

Baroness GAITSKELL

My Lords, in view of the fact that Mr. Ian Smith has extended an invitation to the Foreign Secretary to visit Rhodesia, may I ask my noble friend the Leader of the Houses whether it would not be a good idea—though none of us is particularly hopeful about the situation in Southern Africa—for the Foreign Secretary to go to Rhodesia, especially because Mr. Smith has made some movement towards a settlement? However small it is, Mr. Smith has made a slight change and no one has pushed him to go a little further.

Lord PEART

My Lords, I responded to the suggestion made by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, which my noble friend has taken up. I shall certainly inform the Prime Minister of the strong views held by noble Lords on all sides.

Lord DAVIES of LEEK

My Lords, I should like to follow up the statement of the Leader of the Opposition that there was nothing epoch-making in the Statement. What I found, not having had the advantage of being able to read the Statement before, was that it struck a note of integrity. We had the statement that there is no panacea and, as one who has noted many of these meetings of the leaders of the world in the past, it seems to me that for us to build up the integrity of politicians is an important step in getting people to understand that, in the last analysis, a nation only saves itself by millions of little people proving their integrity and doing their best with honesty and goodness instead of developing a completely acquisitive society that thinks only of itself. That Statement is one that gives an understanding and integrity to the people without any flannel.

Lord PEART

My Lords, I am grateful for my noble friend's comments.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, in these conversations, did the President by any chance refer to the desirability of the European members of NATO making every effort to rationalise their production of conventional weapons and, more generally perhaps, to the necessity, in the interests of the Alliance as a whole, for the standardisation of armaments of all kinds? Also, while we are on the subject of armaments, may I ask whether there was perhaps general agreement that any progress in the follow-up conference to be held in Belgrade next June should be made dependent on progress in the discussions in Vienna on the mutual and balanced reduction of armaments?

Lord PEART

My Lords, I cannot give the House details of the conversation. After all, I was not there. I have only just seen the Statement. On the other hand, I have, naturally, asked questions about it myself. I mentioned the Belgrade conference and the importance of adopting a non-polemical approach. The Prime Minister says in his Statement that he was assured that the President,

is anxious to work closely with the Nine"— and I emphasise that— and with all the NATO partners with a view to a serious dialogue with the East at Eelgrade. I believe that there is no doubt that he is well aware of the difficulties and the special problems. After all, he was once a distinguished naval officer and also, academically, in another particular field, has a very good "track record", if I may use that expression. So we must accept that the President is well aware of the importance of negotiations and the need for us to be firm and strong in this. One need have no doubt about that with the new Administration.

Lord GORE-BOOTH

My Lords, I should like to join other noble Lords in the expressions of satisfaction and congratulation over the visit and to return once more to the special relationship. We live at a time when we do not claim a special relationship of power and wealth, as we perhaps sometimes did. But so many people on this side of the Atlantic have spilt so much ink and wasted so much breath saying that no special relationship exists, that I ask whether it is not very satisfactory to have this relationship restored to its proper proportion by the greatest authority on the matter in the world, the President of the United States?

Lord PEART

My Lords, I am grateful for the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Gore-Booth, who knows about the Foreign Office and international affairs as well as does any man in this House, and I personally agree very much with what he said.