§ 2.38 p.m.
§ Lord O'HAGANMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to abolish the House of Lords.
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made clear, as stated in the Official Report, for 27th January, at column 1698, the Government are continuing to keep the position of this House under review. The Government will continue to assess the situation, and the need for change, in the light of events and developing opinion inside and outside Parliament.
§ Lord O'HAGANMy Lords, does the noble Lord have the feeling that that sounds like a suspended sentence of death? Can he tell the House whether we can deduce from his Answer that the Cabinet do not share the enthusiasm of the National Executive of the Labour Party and Mr. Tony Benn for a Single Chamber Parliament?
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, the right honourable gentleman who has been mentioned was speaking for himself when he expressed his views, and the National Executive is not the Government. I have made my position quite clear on several occasions, as Lord Privy Seal and Leader of this House; I believe that this Chamber has an important role to play and a contribution to make, and it may well be that a time will come when we might want to reform some of its procedures.
§ Lord BLYTONMy Lords, we are not objecting to the Government keeping this matter under constant review, but does the Minister not think that the way in which the Government are treating the Lords is disgraceful? Councillors now get £16.50 a night expenses for staying in London; civil servants get £18.50. We who live in the Provinces are still on £13.50, and we have not had an increase for two and a half years. Is my noble friend further aware that this matter was sent to the Boyle Committee and that it is still boiling? We have not heard anything for years.
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, I do not know whether it is bubble and trouble, but all I can say is that that is another matter to which no doubt noble Lords will come on some other occasion.
§ Lord HALEMy Lords, can the noble Lord say on what terms Her Majesty was graciously pleased to dispose of the use of the Palace of Westminster separately as between the Lords and the Commons, and whether, in the event of the Lords being, abolished we shall be able to follow the example of the Serjeants-at-Law who, being abolished, sold Serjeants' Inn and divided up the proceeds.
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, my noble friend is really speculating as well.
§ Lord PLATTMy Lords, in view of the present state of the nation and the fact that the Government no longer represent the majority of the people, have Her Majesty's Government any plans for the immediate reform of the House of Commons?
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, I do not think that one should get into an argument about who represents the people. A General Election will finally decide that issue. The previous Election decided the issue, and now we have a Government and I speak for the Government. I can say no more than that.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, could the Minister perhaps remind the right honourable gentleman Mr. Benn that somebody who once did abolish the House of Lords—Oliver Cromwell—found he could not do without it, and appointed 45 Life Peers?
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, I do not know whether that would be something which the present Prime Minister could do. All I am saying is that I believe in the role of this Chamber, and I believed in the original reforms, which were frustrated by a strange alliance of Right and Left.