HL Deb 01 March 1977 vol 380 cc502-5

2.53 p.m.

The CHAIRMAN of COMMITTEES (Lord Aberdare) rose to move that the First Report by the Select Committee be agreed to.

The Committee's Report was as follows:

1. QUESTIONS ON MATTERS WITHIN THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CHURCH COMMISSIONERS

The Committee have considered in what circumstances, if any, it would be proper for questions on Church of England matters to be tabled in the House of Lords. The Committee were informed that this was a matter that had been considered on a number of occasions in the past but that no decision had been taken by the House either on the question of principle or on the appropriate procedure. The Committee recommend that questions on Church matters should not be admissible. In making this recommendation the Committee wish to make clear that it is not due to any pressure from the Church of England, but rather to the procedural difficulties which might arise in connection with the tabling and answering of such questions.

2. APPLICATION OF THE ROTATION RULE TO MEMBERSHIP OF CERTAIN SELECT COMMITTEES

The Committee have reconsidered the exemption from the rules for retirement by rotation of members of the Hybrid Instruments Committee, the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments and the European Communities Committee.

They recommend that the Hybrid Instruments Committee and the Statutory Instruments Committee should continue to be exempted from the operation of the rotation rule.

As far as the European Communities Committee is concerned the Committee recommend that, with effect from the beginning of the next Session:

  1. (a) Members of the Select Committee should retire after three years, but be eligible for co-option to any of the Sub-Committees. These Lords would be eligible for re-appointment to the Select Committee after one year;
  2. (b) Chairmen of Sub-Committees should be exempted from the rotation rule for three years after assuming the Chairmanship.

3. PROCEDURE FOR WITHDRAWING PUBLIC BILLS

The Committee have considered the procedure for withdrawing Public Bills. At present the Lord in charge of a Lords' Public Bill may seek to withdraw it at any time before it is passed by the House by asking the leave of the House to do so. This step is necessary even in those cases where the House has already given leave for the withdrawal of a Motion to advance a Bill by a stage—usually the Motion for Second Reading. However, a Lord sometimes forgets that he must withdraw both the Motion to advance his Bill by a stage and the Bill itself. In such a case, the Clerks have no authority to remove the Bill from the table of Bills in Progress in the Order Paper. This in turn may give the misleading impression that the Bill is to be further proceeded with.

The Committee, therefore, recommend that if a Lord wishes to withdraw his Bill, he should have the option of indicating his wish to the Clerks, who would be empowered to make a Minute Entry recording the withdrawal of the Bill.

4. STANDING ORDER 37(5)

The Committee have considered the terms of Standing Order 37(5). These provide that the order of notices relating to Public Bills, Measures and Affirmative Instruments may be varied on any day, if the convenience of the House so requires. It does not provide that the order of notices relating to Motions may be similarly varied. This has given rise to difficulty when two Lords have wished to reverse the order of their Motions and has required a Business of the House Motion to achieve such a change.

The Committee, while recognising certain advantages in greater flexibility in the arrangement of the Order Paper, believe that the present terms of the Standing Order safeguard in particular the interests of backbench members of the House, and, therefore, recommend no change in the Standing Order.

5. BRIEF GUIDE TO THE PROCEDURE AND PRACTICE OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS

The Committee were informed of the publication during the last Session of the Brief Guide to the Procedure and Practice of the House of Lords.

Lord ABERDARE

My Lords, I beg to move that the First Report by the Select Committee be agreed to. It might be helpful if I were to make a few brief remarks about the Report of the Procedure Committee. First of all, to avoid all doubt, on Section 3 I should make it quite clear that the second paragraph must be read in conjunction with the first so that the option for a Peer to withdraw his Bill merely by informing the Clerks is available only when he has already withdrawn the Motion for the Second Reading or whatever the stage of the Bill may be. More important, I would draw the attention of your Lordships to Section 5 and the new little red book entitled A Brief Guide to the Procedure and Practice of the House. It is a small but highly readable document full of valuable advice. It is given to all new Peers now when they take their seats, but I would hope that many of your Lordships will find it interesting, and it is available in the Printed Paper Office.

Moved, That the First Report by the Select Committee be agreed to.—(Lord Aberdare.)

Lord DERWENT

My Lords, the first section does not appear to be very clear. In that section the Committee recommend that Questions on Church of England matters should not be tabled. Are there no circumstances in which one can ask a Question of Her Majesty's Government about the Church of England?

Lord ABERDARE

My Lords, I imagine that with the usual flexibility for which this House is well known, the Government might find ways of answering Questions addressed to them about the Church Commissioners, just as they do about the Post Office.

Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARY-LEBONE

My Lords, may I on this auspicious day congratulate the Chairman of Committees on the beautiful flower in his buttonhole which is designed to celebrate the Feast of St. David?

Lord ABERDARE

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble and learned Lord, and I wish to express my gratitude to Miss Wilson.

On Question, Motion agreed to.