§ 2.52 p.m.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have considered making use of the community service plan for substituting work for light imprisonment sentences to cut down dead elm trees as fuel for the needy.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Harris of Greenwich)My Lords, work placements for offenders subject to community service orders are a matter for individual probation and after-care services. It would be for local consideration having regard to all the relevant circumstances, including the number of orders made and the other tasks that are available, whether or not to undertake work of the sort suggested in the noble Lord's Question.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, there are two angles arising out of that reply which I would ask the noble Lord to clarify if he can. First, is it to be understood—and this would be surprising, considering the number of lawless incidents that take place—that there are not enough sentences of this kind? If there are, that should be a possible source of supply. On the other hand, is it to be understood that the Government do not think that the dead elm scourge is of sufficient importance to be put into the category of work that might be subjected to this procedure to alleviate the present congestion arising from the presence of these trees?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, I am aware that the noble Lord has been in touch with the Surrey Probation Service on this matter, but I must emphasise, as I did in my original Answer, that this is a matter for local decision and not one for the Government. On the first supplementary question he asked whether there were not a large number of orders being made. A substantial number of orders are indeed being made, but no very significant number in the Epsom Petty Sessional Division area, which relates to the situation in Surrey which the noble Lord raised with the local service.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that explanation on the legal side, but what about the environmental side? Can the noble Lord give any clarification about the extent to which the Government regard this frightful 1115 scourge throughout the country and the disfiguration caused by it as the proper subject of some governmental action, subvention or some other action designed to achieve its reduction?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHI am sure that this is a significant problem, my Lords, but the noble Lord's original Question related to the use of community service and what I have said in relation to that is that this is a matter for local decision by the chief probation officer of the area concerned.