§ 2.51 p.m.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what conclusions have been reached during the discussions between representatives of the United Kingdom, USA, France, West Germany and Canada, and a representative of the Republic of South Africa regarding the future of Namibia (South West Africa).
892§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, following further discussions between representatives of the Five Powers and the South African Government on the basis of Security Council Resolution 385, it has been announced that the Turnhalle proposals have been withdrawn. The South African Government have passed legislation which will empower the State President to govern Namibia by decree through an Administrator-General in the interim period leading to independence. Elections are to be held for a constituent assembly that will draw up a constitution for an independent Namibia.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I welcome the concessions that have been obtained, but is not the difficulty the maintenance of a South African Administrator-General? Is the representative of the United Nations, who has been appointed to co-operate with him, to Pave equal powers, or would it be possible to consider a tripartite arrangement by which an international jurist or a high commissioner was added to those two.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, those are indeed interesting suggestions. I am very glad to say that the South African Government have been most co-operative and helpful in this matter. The present proposal is that an Administrator-General—who might be a judge of high repute, although the options are not closed in that respect—will, as it were, be accompanied, on, I imagine, on a basis of equality, by a representative of the Secretary General of the United Nations. One would not wish to say anything at this moment to prejudice Dr. Waldeheim's choice in the matter. It is very much a matter for him in a personal and official capacity. So the duumvirate of the Administrator-General and the United Nations representative would move together to ensure conditions of order in the run-up to independence, the holding of free elections and, prospectively, the handling of the necessary transition period from the date of independence to the firm establishment of the new independent Government.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, can the Minister say who will be responsible for law and order and what powers that person will have in enforcing law and order.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, that is under consideration. I take the point made by the noble Baroness. Of course, one would feel, and I am sure that she would agree, that a United Nations presence of a civilian type was preferable, but one must consider and look forward to the possible substitution of a policing force—and I do not prejudge the possibility of a UN peace-keeping force—so that there is no gap between what already exists to keep order and a new more international system to maintain order while this territory is framing its own arrangements for internal law and order.
§ Lord DRUMALBYNMy Lords, can the noble Lord say how a United Nations force, even a civilian force, could possibly keep law there, without any knowledge of the 11 or more languages that are spoken and without any knowledge of the peoples themselves.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I was addressing myself to the need for arrangements to ensure that there is no gap between provision for law and order at the moment and the prospective situation that we, with the South African Government, among others, are all working to create in this territory which is soon to become a State. I was very careful to indicate that none of us would wish to prejudge the form of any international or other force to maintain order during that transition period.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, arising from those questions and answers, may I ask whether any undertaking has been given that South Africa, whose troops in Namibia are stated to reach 50,000, will withdraw them.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, my understanding is that the South African Government have undertaken to withdraw their troops at independence.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, as the Question refers to the future of South-West Africa, does the Minister recognise that SWAPO refused to participate in the Turnhalle Conference, which was representative of all the ethnic groups in that small total population of under 1 million, and that SWAPO is, or was, a movement founded by subversive Communist agencies in the Republic of South Africa.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I think that I am within the recollection of the House as never having said anything to underestimate the possibilities of the Turnhalle Conference. However, they did not commend themselves to a sufficient wide range of interests in the territory and the Turnhalle delegates themselves have acknowledged that their proposals were not acceptable. They have now said that they see free elections as the way to resolve the problem. We may now look forward to the future of Namibia being settled by free elections under, one hopes, international supervision and guarantee.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, I do not want to press the Minister, but can he reply to the question: does the Government regard SWAPO as representative of any part or the whole of South-West Africa.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, yes, certainly; SWAPO is an important element in the representation of the peoples of South-West Africa, Namibia. It is not the only element, but it is an important one.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the peoples of Namibia will be able to prove whether or not they agree that SWAPO represents them when they have free elections.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the elections of a constituent assembly will indeed make their attitude clear on that point.