SCHOOL EXAMINATION STEERING COMMITTEE (Hansard, 14 June 1977)

§ Lord BELSTEAD
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, the members of this Committee were appointed in a personal capacity rather than as representatives of particular interests. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science is satisfied, however, that the membership of the Committee is not biased towards the interests of any one group of examining boards.

§ Lord BELSTEAD
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for the information which she has given me, that the members of this Committee are serving in their personal capacities, and I am sure that they will endeavour to do this. But are the Government not aware that the Schools Council's proposals, which would have marked a major change in the examination system, were received with criticism on educational, administrative and financial grounds by the GCE boards but not with the same criticisms by the CSE boards? The question I must therefore now ask the noble Baroness is this: Can the Government say how many members of this Steering Committee are associated with the policy-making committees of the examination boards?

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, there is a Mr. Cooke, who is a member of the Schools Council and is the headmaster of the Highfield Comprehensive School at Gateshead, who is a member of the Committee at this moment. The only other members of the Committee with any connection with a GCE board are Miss Wood, who was a member of the Associated Examining Board about five years ago, and Mr. Mumford, who has only a slight connection with the Cambridge board through informal membership of a further education advisory committee. Mr. Williams also served for about seven years with the West Midlands CSE board, but he ended his connection with that board some four years ago.

§ Lord BELSTEAD
My Lords, is the noble Baroness not aware that her reply reveals that, so far as the examination boards are concerned, there is an imbalance on this Steering Committee because in fact the only relevant name which the noble Baroness read out is the one who is a member of one of the CSE boards? Are the Government also aware that there are, of course, representatives of the Schools Council, which is responsible for producing proposals which the Secretary of State herself has referred to as giving rise to "major uncertainties"? Can the Government therefore explain how this Steering Committee will tackle their task with a totally fresh mind?

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, I hope that the Steering Committee will tackle their task with a totally fresh mind 9 and with a completely unbiased one. The views of the examining boards are going to be taken into account by the Steering Committee because they have already indicated to those boards that they would like board representatives to join a group to investigate the costs of examining at 16-plus. I would expect the Committee to hold consultations with the boards on a broad range of issues before submitting a report to my right honourable friend. The question of some kind of common system is an important and complex one and one on which it is essential that we get the right answer. I therefore cannot hold out any hope that there will be a quick or early report from the Committee. It may be some time before they report their findings to my right honourable friend, and I hope that when that happens we will have the right answers.

§ Lord ALEXANDER of POTTERHILL
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that when the Schools Council discussed this matter there were only two dissenting votes against the advice offered to the Secretary of State? In the constitution of this Committee, knowing that the majority of those involved in the Committee are already committed to a point of view, is it not a reality that the advice they are likely to offer is predetermined?

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, I do not accept that. The Schools Council made their proposals for replacing the Certificate of Secondary Education and the General Certificate of Education O level by a common system of examining last summer. My right honourable friend responded in a letter to the chairman of the Council on 26th October and that letter was published. She took the view that the proposals gave rise to a number of important educational, administrative and financial uncertainties. She said that she would not be prepared to take a decision until they had been further studied. Therefore, the Steering Committee was established and are now studying those proposals.

§ Lord WYNNE-JONES
My Lords, would not my noble friend agree that the purpose of examinations at this level is to ensure that, in the interests of fairness, there is a uniform method carried out throughout the whole country? Would she not also agree that it is rather surprising 10 to have it suggested that there are some special interests of examining boards? Surely no examining board ought to have any other interest than that of fair examining.

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, my noble friend is perfectly right. The chairman will be meeting representatives from each of the 14 CSE and the eight GCE boards on 16th June and will discuss with them informally the relationship between the Steering Committee and the boards.

§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONE
My Lords, while not in any way seeking to quarrel with the test of fairness which has been put forward, may I ask whether the noble Baroness realises that what many of us—and most parents—are deeply concerned about in examinations is the maintenance of adequate standards in education.

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, we agree with that. Surely one of the outcomes of this Committee will be that we shall have a fair and equitable examination system.

§ Lord JAMES of RUSHOLME
My Lords, would the noble Baroness perhaps be concerned to inform the Secretary of State that there is, on the part of many people who know something about examinations, as well as on the part of Schools Council, a certain concern that those bodies who are the most expert in the techniques and objectives of examinations have not a sufficiently loud voice in deciding these very important issues now under discussion?

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, I am sure that consultations by the Steering Committee will be held with all kinds of people and bodies. I will ensure that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is aware of the views expressed by the noble Lord.

§ Lord DAVIES of LEEK
My Lords, can my noble friend tell me why "oldies" are continually denigrating the children and youth of today on their abilities? Despite juvenile deliquency and the inadequacies of children, is she not aware—and she has only to look at the Listener in the period of about 1933—of the fact 11 that more children are today taking City and Guilds certificates and going to universities than ever in the history of Britain; and that the standard of ability is higher today technically than it has ever been with our children?

§ Baroness STEDMAN
My Lords, I would not disagree with one word that my noble friend has said.