LORDS AMENDMENT (Hansard, 28 July 1977)

§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth not insist on its Amendment No. 1 to which the Commons have disagreed for the Reason numbered 2. When the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, moved this Amendment to the Post Office Bill which has now been returned from the Commons, he said that he hoped to persuade the Government to reconsider the merits of the experiment and to allow the House of Commons another opportunity to consider the principle of the Bill. The Government remain firmly committed to this experiment. The other place, having considered the noble Lord's Amendment, decided without a Division to disagree with your Lordships' House. Their reason is that it is appropriate that the experiment in industrial democracy which the Bill enables to take place should begin as soon as appropriate appointments to the Post Office can be made. I hope that the noble Lord will agree that his Amendment has now served its purpose in giving another place a chance to reconsider and that your Lordships' House will not insist upon this Amendment. I beg to move.

§ Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, it is not my intention to pursue the matter at great length now, but in passing may I express my regret that in his remarks the noble Lord made no reference whatever to the entirely changed circumstances that faced both the other place and the Government after this Bill had had its Second Reading in your Lordships' House and prior to its Committee stage. I refer to the publication of the Carter Report which was commissioned by this Government into the workings of the Post Office. The noble Lord will recall that when I moved this Amendment I drew his attention and that of your Lordships to the fact that the Carter Report is very critical of the Government's proposals for industrial democracy in the Post Office. Therefore I thought it appropriate—and a majority of your Lordships agreed with me—that the other place and, indeed, the 1183 Government ought to have the opportunity further to consider this matter.

The other place considered the matter, I believe at half past four this morning. Although, as the noble Lord has said, we have a Reason for their disagreement, they did not divide on the matter and your Lordships' Amendment was therefore negatived. I have not yet seen the report of the proceedings in Hansard, but it is hardly surprising that at the end of a long night's business the other place was not able to find time to give the matter the consideration that I believe it deserves. Regrettably, therefore, this experiment in industrial democracy is now to go ahead along exactly the lines which the Government propose.

I shall not repeat the criticisms of that experiment which I have already made except, finally, to say that I greatly regret that the Government have not seen fit to pause and reflect in the light of the most important Carter Report, upon which they themselves have not yet made a judgment, and, indeed, upon which they have invited comment between now and the end of the year.