HL Deb 21 July 1977 vol 386 cc421-3

[References are to[Bill 108]as first printed for the Commons]

1 Clause 1, page 2, line 14, leave out from "offence" to end of line 17 and insert which is not punishable with imprisonment

2 Clause 3, page 2, line 43, leave out from "indictment" to end of line 46 and insert—

  1. "(a) in a case falling within subsection (2) or (3) below, to imprisonment for a term related in accordance with that subsection to the gravity of the offence or offences in question (referred to below in this section as the relevant offence or offences); and
  2. (b) in any other case, to a fine.
Paragraph (b) above shall not be taken as prejudicing the application of section 30(1) of the Powers of Criminal Courts Act 1973 (general power of court to fine offender convicted on indictment) in a case falling within subsection (2) or (3) below".

3 Page 3, leave out from beginning of line 11 to end of line 8 on page 4 and insert— (3) Where in a case other than one to which subsection (2) above applies the relevant offence or any of the relevant offences is punishable with imprisonment, the person convicted shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding the maximum term provided for that offence or (where more than one such offence is in question) for any one of those offences (taking the longer or the longest term as the limit for the purposes of this section where the terms provided differ). In the case of an offence triable either way the references above in this subsection to the maximum term provided for that offence are references to the maximum term so provided on conviction on indictment".

4 Clause 4, page 4, line 9, at beginning insert "Subject to subsection (1A) below"

5 Clause 4, page 4, line 13, at end insert— (1A) In relation to the institution of proceedings under section 1 above for conspiracy to commit—

  1. (a) an offence which is subject to a prohibition by or under any enactment on the institution of proceedings otherwise than by, or on behalf or with the consent of, the Attorney General, or
  2. (b) two or more offences of which at least one is subject to such a prohibition.
subsection (1) above shall have effect with the substitution of a reference to the Attorney General for the reference to the Director of Public Prosecutions".

6 Clause 4, page 4, line 15, after "offence" insert "which is not a summary offence".

7 Clause 5, page 5, line 13, leave out "one year" and insert "six months".

8 Clause 5, page 5, line 22, leave out "indictable".

9 Clause 5, page 5, line 23, leave out "on conviction on indictment".

10 Clause 5, page 5, line 29, at end insert— (6A) Indictment and attempt to commit the offence of conspiracy (whether the conspiracy incited or attempted would be an offence at common law or under section 1 above or any other enactment) shall cease to be offences.".

The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE (Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge)

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 1 to 10. Amendment No. 1 is included in the interests of simplification; it does not alter the sense of the clause. The purpose of Amendments Nos. 2 and 3 is to make a change in the penalty provisions for conspiracy to commit offences carrying a penalty of imprisonment of one year or less and for conspiring to commit offences which do not carry a penalty of imprisonment. The effect is to make the penalty of imprisonment for conspiracy to commit an offence carrying a penalty of one year's imprisonment or less the same as for the related substantive offence. The penalty for conspiracy to commit an offence which is not punishable by imprisonment is limited to a fine. Amendments Nos. 8 and 9 are consequential. These Amendments are in line with the Law Commission's basic principle that the penalty for a conspiracy offence should be the same as, or closely related to, the penalty for the substantive offence.

Amendments Nos. 4, 5 and 6 correct a defect in the drafting of Clause 4, whereby, in the case of conspiracy to commit summary offence for which the consent of someone other than the Director of Public Prosecutions is required, the consent of both the Director of Public Prosecutions and the other person would be required for the conspiracy charge. This would be unnecessary and administratively clumsy. The effect of the Amendments is to require the Attorney-General's consent for the conspiracy charge if his consent is required for the substantive offence and otherwise the Director of Public Prosecution's consent alone.

Amendment 7 is a drafting Amendment, consequential on Amendment No. 24 which we shall come to later. The effect of Amendment No. 10 is to abolish the offence of incitement to conspire and attempt to conspire. During discussion of the Bill in Standing Committee in another place, the Government accepted that it was desirable to make it clear that there is to be no offence of "attempting" to conspire. The reason for this is that conspiracy is an inchoate offence, the essence of which is an agreement to do something unlawful and it is too remote from behaviour that actually does damage to have an offence of "attempting" to get someone to agree, or "inciting" them to agree. This Amendment has the support of the Law Commission.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.