§ Lord AYLESTONEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to amend the law with a view to preventing untrained or inadequately trained persons from setting themselves up in private practice as chiropodists.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, a number of professional bodies have put forward to my Department detailed proposals for legislation to restrict the right to practise privately as a chiropodist to those with defined standards of training or experience. My right honourable and honourable friends are currently con-siding these proposals, as well as their implications, and hope to decide in the next few weeks whether they should be given Government support.
§ Lord AYLESTONEMy Lords, may I thank my noble friend for that very helpful reply and ask him whether he is aware that it takes three years to train a chiropodist, and that there are something like 2,500 unqualified people practising as chiropodists? Can he give an assurance that none of them is employed in the National Health Service or by local authority welfare and domiciliary services?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLYes, my Lords, I can give my noble friend and your Lordships the assurance that they are not employed within the National Health Service. I have to confess that I do not know the answer with regard to local authorities. Currently there are 338 5,000 State-registered chiropodists, and about two-thirds of them undertake work in the National Health Service. I can give the figures for 1975. There were 1,253 whole-time-equivalent chiropodists working in the National Health Service; of that number, 809 gave full-time service to the National Health Service. As my noble friend points out, there are a number of chiropodists who are engaged in chiropody and who call themselves chiropodists but who have not taken the approved training. This is causing anxiety to a large number of people, and, as I said in my original Answer, this is the matter that my right honourable friend is considering.
Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, when the noble Lord speaks of restricting the right to practise to those with what he calls "defined standards", will he bear in mind that there are a number of organisations in this country which have trained chiropodists, many of whom are doing admirable work? Will he also endeavour to arrive at a fair conclusion and be sure that he is not just cornering the profession for the members of certain associations who feel they are in an influential position? There is a shortage of trained chiropodists in this country, and the noble Lord ought to do all he can, not just to raise the standards but also to increase the numbers.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the fact that there is a shortage of fully-trained chiropodists in this country is no reason for recognising people who have not been adequately trained.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I did not say that the noble Lord had made such a suggestion. It so happens that it is possible to practise as a chiropodist after taking fifteen postal-course lessons with something like three or four weeks' practical training. That raises questions, and it is for that reason why my right honourable friend is considering these matters in consultation with the Chiropodist Board.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, perhaps I may thank I the noble Lord for his reasonably helpful 339 reply. Does it not rather surprise him that it is taking so long to consider this question? As he was not absolutely certain that the Government would support the matter, can the noble Lord give us an assurance that he will not keep us waiting too long, so that when a decision (I hope, a favourable one) has been taken we can get on with it? It is essential that something should be done.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I said in my original reply that we hoped to decide within the next few weeks whether the proposals to restrict the practice of certain people calling themselves chiropodists should be given Government support, so there ought to be some decision in the very near future.
§ Lord HALEMy Lords, will my noble friend remember that many of the poorer patients are attended by experienced practising chiropodists who have not taken an examination; that they can be treated at home and have been treated at home; and that they therefore do not have to face the difficulty and the trouble of travelling, with defective feet, often for long distances? Will my noble friend not disqualify men of experience who have given satisfaction to their clients and have practised their profession for a long time merely on the allegation that they are less qualified than somebody who has had no experience but has just passed an examination?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, we would accept that there are a large number of chiropodists who have not had very great training and who are carrying out simple routine tasks of foot care and hygiene which in the normal way a fit person would be able to undertake for himself. We recognise this, and there may well be a place for them; but I think that we must consider what we are being asked to do by a large number of people who are expressing concern as to the extent to which they should be allowed to function.