§ Lord MOYNEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the postcode is helping to make the delivery of letters cheaper and speedier, and whether, to encourage the use of the code, they will urge the Post Office to give first class treatment to letters bearing second class stamps when the postcode is used.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, this is a matter for the Post Office, who tell me that mechanisation, of which postcodes are a vital part, is improving the reliability and economics of the postal service. However, the full benefits of the system will not be realised until the mechanisation programme is completed in the early 1980s. The Post Office is convinced that to treat second class letters in the way proposed would be both impracticable under present arrangements and unacceptably expensive.
§ Lord MOYNEMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his reply, I should like to ask him two short supplementary questions: first, whether it would not save a great many simple people a lot of unnecessary trouble if the Post Office was to announce areas where the postcode is not in use, so that the public might be relieved of the extremely irksome duty of using it for no purpose; secondly, whether there is any truth in the rumour that sorters have found the deciphering of letters and numbers, rather than having simply to read Birmingham or Timbuctoo, such a strain on their nerves as to cause a need for an unforeseen and uneconomic number of tea-breaks?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, in fact when a new sorting office is opened publicity is given, and the use of postcodes can rise to the rather high figure of 70 per cent. The public are willing to work with the Post Office, an organisation which basically we regard with affection. In fact, postcode usage rises when it is known that a new office is being opened. As regards the second, rather fascinating, question put by the noble Lord, there is no doubt that feeding four, five, six or seven figures into a machine does cause some people problems, but for many others it is a relaxing pastime. Although it is a problem—the noble Lord has put his finger on a sensitive point—it is not an insoluble one.
§ Lord ROBBINSMy Lords, may I ask a very simple non-provocative question: Do I understand from the Answer which the noble Lord gave to the noble Lord, Lord Moyne, that he would contend that the postal service today is more efficient than it was ten years ago?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, that is a statistical problem which I could not possibly answer. In fact it is probably one of the most efficient postal services in the world.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, leaving aside the affection with which the noble Lord seems to think we regard the Post Office, may I ask him whether he could state when this mechanisation programme commenced? Could he circulate in the Official Report the number of centres which are now equipped, and could he detail for us those centres, with the dates, which will become equipped up to the early 1980s?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I could do so, but perhaps a Question might be a better way of achieving it. This is a very large industrial programme. The Post Office is one of the largest employers of labour in the country. It is, if I may say so, an irreplaceable part of our public scene. There was an unfortunate setback in about 1972, when the union was in conflict with the management, but now everything is going forward and this very important programme of modernisation is proceeding smoothly. Sniping at it will not help at all.
§ Lord HEWLETTMy Lords, would the Minister care to reflect upon his comment that the postal service is one of the most efficient in the world, in view of the fact that a post card sent from Peking to Manchester got there faster than a letter sent first class from Eastbourne to Manchester? Perhaps there is an interesting political reflection to be had by the Minister in this regard.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, may I just answer my noble friend Lady Burton. The 1,000 manual sorting offices will be replaced by 80 mechanised letter offices by the mid-1980s. This will in fact produce substantial technical and financial improvements in the present service.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, I did not quite understand my noble friend. What I cannot sort out is why it would be better to put down another Question to obtain the information I have asked for today when it could perfectly well be provided in the Official Report. Why should the noble Lord want another Question?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, one really cannot talk for hours on the subject. It is a major problem. I will either write to the noble Baroness or I will answer a Question, if she cares to put one down. In these very broad terms over a major industry one simply cannot answer. May I say also that this is a nationalised industry and its day-today operations are a matter for the management.
§ The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Peart)My Lords, we have a lot of business to get through. The Minister has said that he would write to the noble Baroness.
§ Lord DRUMALBYNMy Lords, would it not encourage the use of the postal code if it was shown in the telephone directory?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, that is a most helpful point, and I shall bring it to the notice of my right honourable friend.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, in spite of the advice of the Leader of the House, is a programme in the Post 466 Office or a nationalised industry, once started, ever questioned? Are programmes ever reviewed or do they, on momentum, carry on whether they are proven bad or good?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I have a feeling, having only just started to answer Questions on the Post Office, that programmes are constantly questioned. We are not talking about the post office in the village; this is a major industry in which about 2 per cent. of the population are involved. Obviously, planning must be very long-term. It has its momentum. Your Lordships are in a position to question it at appropriate stages. Let us forget the post office in the village and think of the major industry.