§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they have taken to implement the European Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism; and whether they are aware of the abhorrence felt at the release of the terrorist Abu Daoud, the self-confessed main planner of the massacre of the Irsaeli athletes at Munich and other terrorist actions.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, the European Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism is not yet in force. It opens for signature on 27th January, on which date the Government intend to sign it. We also intend to seek Parliamentary approval to ratify the Convention without reservations at the earliest possible opportunity. The Government are fully aware of the extent of feeling on this issue. Together with the other Member Governments of the European Community, they have made plain their abhorrence of acts of terrorism, notably in the European Council's statement of 13th July 1976.
Lord JANNERMy Lords, in view of the fact that the Convention itself is perfectly clear about what ought to be done in a case like this, will the noble Lord see to it that France is made aware of the fact that people throughout the world are shocked at this disgraceful release, that extradition treaties pertaining to the matter are in force and that the whole situation makes a farce of any attempt to suppress the terrorism which 222 is now taking possession of the world and which, unless we move very quickly, will lead to chaos?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I believe that all countries are well aware of the views and feelings of Her Majesty's Government and of tie people of this country on these matters. In regard to the Convention, it is of course a convention to complement the existing extradition arrangements—in particular to overcome the difficulties created by the extant definition of "political offence". We have worked very hard to do away with this definition so that hijacking, kidnapping and terrorism generally should not be regarded as political offences. This is a major step forward but, as I have said, the Convention has not yet come into force. It will be open for signature on 27th of this month. We hope to be the first to sign it and possibly the first to ratify it.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether or not he agrees that, in the matter of Abu Daoud, to gain economic advantage by subordinating modern values deserves condemnation? Can my noble friend explain why Her Majesty's Government have not indulged in such condemnation"
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, my noble friend is expressing a view which would have general support in all parts of the House and, indeed, in all quarters of the country and in other countries. It is, however, for the country concerned to apply its own law to extradition matters. It would be for this country to do so. May I repeat that the views and feelings of Her Majesty's Government on this matter, and I believe the views and feelings of the general population of this country, are perfectly well known in other countries. On the eve of the signature and ratification of the European Convention, which is designed to solve questions of extradition of this kind, it would in no way help for me to indulge in bilateral recrimination.
Lord JANNERMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there is consternation about the fact that our Government did not make their views clear at once? If I may ask the noble Lord one more question, is he aware that, in a statement made 223 through the media on this subject, the representatives of the PLO in this country have disgraced the use of the media, and will he see to it that once again the question of whether the PLO ought to be allowed to remain represented in this country is considered?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the position of the PLO and any other cognate organisation in this country is constantly under observation, and I have explained from time to time from this Box what the conditions are. As to the first part of my noble friend's question, I repeat that Her Majesty's Government and the British public generally have left other countries in absolutely no doubt as to their views and feelings on this and similar matters. I suggest strongly to my noble friend and to the House that the European Convention, to which he in his Question and I in my main reply referred, offers a major step forward in solving these very difficult questions of bilateral extradition. If we can secure general signature of the European Convention as from 27th January—as from this week in fact—I believe that the position for the future in regard to these matters will be greatly clarified and greatly helped.
§ Lord GLADWYNMy Lords, while agreeing with the Minister that, if possible, the future of the Convention should not be prejudiced in any way, may I ask whether the Government think that the reasons given by the French Government for refusing the extradition of Abu Daoud either to Israel or to Germany are legally convicing?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, they are legally convincing to the French authorities. As I have said, it is a matter for each country. Extradition is a bilateral matter, as the noble Lord knows better than most. It is for each country to apply its law to the existing extradition treaties to which it is a contractor. I take the noble Lord's second point and I welcome it. I do not think we should say or do too much in the next few days conceivably to prejudice the universal signing and ratification of a very useful Convention.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether I am right in 224 assuming from what he said in reply to the Question on the Order Paper that it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to sign this Convention and that he hopes that ours will be the first signature to be attached to it? If that is the case, what is there to quarrel about?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I often wish that my noble friend were answering at this Box. He has put his finger on the point. As the House knows, the Convention emanates from the Council of Europe which is an Assembly of 17 countries. That is a very wide span of countries which can do something effective about extradition in matters like this. Therefore, as my noble friend says, having to a great extent taken the lead in creating this Convention, we look forward on the 27th of this month to being possibly the first to sign and there by to encourage the others—although I do not believe much encouragement is necessary—so that we have a fully signed-up and very soon a fully ratified Convention, which I believe will greatly change the situation in regard to problems of extradition.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, while recognising that it is free to the countries which are signatories to the Convention to determine how their own law should be applied, and that in this case France has determined that it is satisfactory to its own authorities that Mr. Abu Daoud should not be extradited, what remedy is there for the citizens of another State who consider that the law of a particular country is not being applied after the Convention comes into force? If there is no such remedy, could not the Convention become a dead letter by the continual flouting of its provisions?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I do not think it could become a dead letter. Without going into detail, the Convention itself solves a great many difficulties in regard to extradition particularly in regard to so-called political offences, and is a great step forward. I believe there is a feeling in Europe, and indeed among the 17 Members of the Council of Europe, that this Convention must be made to work, and its deficiencies, if they reveal themselves, be put right with the least possible delay. In view of the question put to me, I might add that in 225 addition to this action of creating a new Convention of which 17 States will be signatories and protectors, we have taken an initiative among the Nine to secure a Convention which will be supportive of the European Convention which I have just described and should be very useful in meeting the kind of difficulty hinted at by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury.
§ Lord POPPLEWELLMy Lords—
§ The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Peart)My Lords, I was going to allow just my noble friend to speak, although actually I agree that we ought to proceed.
§ Lord POPPLEWELLMy Lords, can my noble friend say how many nations propose to sign the Convention?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSHopefully, my Lords, all 17.