§ The Earl of KINNOULLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a Statement on Concorde's trans-Atlantic and further inter-continental services.
Lord ORAMMy Lords, the British and French Ambassadors have been instructed to approach the United States Government to make known our concern at the further delay to New York's decision. We are considering what other action would be appropriate. British Airways plan to start flights to Melbourne as soon as possible after they have developed their New York service.
§ The Earl of KINNOULLMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that helpful reply, and I am sure the whole House supports the Government in the representations they are making. Is there any likelihood now, in the Government's view, that New York may well be by-passed in favour of another city—Philadelphia, for instance—if delays continue incessantly? Secondly, can the noble Lord say what further information the New York Port Authority were requesting, and if it has been supplied? Lastly, can the noble Lord say whether British Airways are in negotiation with an American carrier on an interchange service in America for Concorde?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I do not think the postponement of a decision has occurred because the New York Port Authority want further information: they have just indicated that they want further time to consider the question. I believe that to be the position. On the 1140 question of by-passing New York, I should not like to enter into discussion of those possibilities because we are of course anxious—and indeed reasonably optimistic—that the decision will go our way. We hope it will, so that the New York leg can be developed. As to British Airways and Braniff—I think this was the noble Earl's third point—yes, that is a development which we very much welcome, and it is an indication of the initiatives which are being taken in promoting the sales and leasing of Concorde.
§ The Earl of KIMBERLEYMy Lords, may I ask the Minister, first, why it is necessary for the route to Australia to have to wait until New York has been cleared? Secondly, in view of the fact that the French successfully by-passed over-flying India last September, does he know that there is really no reason why the route to Singapore, on the way to Australia, could not be started now—or is this due to a lack of training of British Airways crews?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I think it is the case that the plans are very much, in the first instance, the trans-Atlantic plans, and we would not want to start other operations which might prejudice the chances of operating over the Atlantic if the New York decision goes favourably. As to starting the route to Australia now, it is possible to have a route other than over-flying India, but it depends on what I have said about our wish to operate over the Atlantic first.
§ The Earl of KIMBERLEYMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell us why the New York route would be prejudiced by opening up another route from the other direction?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, there is the question of a sufficient number of crews being trained, and if the small number of crews were committed to the Far East route we should have difficulty, no doubt, in taking up the option across the Atlantic as soon as that decision is made.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARY-LEBONEMy Lords, as one who lives more or less under the flight path of Concorde into Heathrow, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that in 1141 actual practice one does not notice the Concorde at all; and should not environmentalists be reassured on this point, both by English experience to this effect and by experience in Washington?
Lord ORAMYes, my Lords. I believe any inconvenience in this Island is confined to its far South-Western tip. The noble and learned Lord is quite right in saying that in the area where he lives—and, indeed, in the bulk of this Island—the trouble is not as forecast by opponents of Concorde. This is true, also, of the tests that have been going on in relation to Washington, where the noise hazard is well within the estimates of Mr. Coleman's decision.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, with regard to the difficulties of operating into New York, are the Government and British Airways aware that the authorities of Miami Airport, which I visited only last week, are anxious and willing to receive the aeroplane?
§ Lord ORR-EWINGMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that co-operation between the aerospace industry in this country and that in the USA is valuable on both counts, but that this will be put at risk if we have a continual procrastination on opening the New York—London route? Powerful interests exist and are lobbying fiercely in the United States against this facility in New York, so will our Ambassador say that there comes a time when we must believe that they are plotting to undermine Concorde rather than giving it a fair chance to earn its keep?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, any procrastination that there may be—and I hope that the noble Lord will accept this—is not due to any procrastination on this side of the Atlantic. Many efforts have been made with the authorities and with public opinion in the New York area; and the evidence of diplomatic exchanges which I gave shows that we are pushing forward. If the noble Lord's remarks, which I appreciate, were directed not so much to me as to the other side of the Atlantic, I hope that they will be taken note of.
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether the further measures, which he mentioned were under consideration, will be the responsibility of the American and French Governments or of British Airways and Air France? Can he say whether it is anticipated that these measures will be taken before the New York decision is made or only afterwards?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, my reference was to possible action either by the British Government jointly with the French Government or by the airlines concerned. It was a general phrase and intended generally.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, pending any decision about New York, have British Airways explored the possibility of a Concorde route to Montreal, Toronto and other Canadian centres?