AID TO EGYPT (Hansard, 14 December 1977)

§ Lord SEGAL
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)
My Lords, bilateral aid to Egypt—that is, capital aid and technical co-operation—has increased from £2.2 million in the financial year 1973–1974 to an estimated £3.5 million in 1977–1978. Additionally, our contribution to the Food and Agriculture Organisation fertiliser aid in 1976–1977 amounted to nearly £1 million, and our share of EEC food aid expenditure amounted to a little over £1 million. Future expenditure on the bilateral aid programme will be maintained at the current level in real terms.

§ Lord SEGAL
My Lords, I should like to thank my noble friend for that reply. But would he not agree that, since unilaterally breaking off trade relations with Russia, Egypt has become a potential ally of the West? Should not our aid to Egypt have been increased a great deal more generously than hitherto?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, agree that the rapprochement between us and Egypt, and indeed between the West and Egypt, has been most marked in the period following their abrogation of the Russian connection. As to the amount and purpose of the aid, which is increasingly being devoted to technical assistance, or technical co-operation, as we now call it, I think that it is fairly substantial. It is part of the contribution that a number of countries make multilaterally through the EEC, and through the agencies of the United Nations, as well as fairly substantial bilateral means of aid that we make available year by year.

§ Baroness ELLES
My Lords, would the Minister not agree that relations with Egypt have been improving for some time, and that it is not only since the ending of the Soviet assistance that we have had good relations with Egypt? Secondly, can the Minister say what proposals have been made at the European Commission for increased commercial activity within the Mediterranean global policy both between the EEC and Egypt, and the United Kingdom and Egypt?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I should not wish at this stage to anticipate in any detail the progress of the EEC's consideration of a comprehensive Mediterranean policy. But I take fully into consideration the importance of what the noble Baroness has said. She knows that there is a good deal of discussion, and indeed very hard work, proceeding in that direction at the moment. As for the improvement in our relations with Egypt—an old friend, of course, over many centuries; a country and a people for whose culture and achievements we in this country have always had the highest respect — I am delighted to agree that this improvement has been going on for quite some time, Indeed, I had something to do with it in my former incarnation.

§ Lord SEGAL
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that our recent £40 million grant of military aid to Egypt could have provided nearly 1,000 badly needed new buses for Cairo, which city alone has a population larger than the whole of Mozambique? Could we not in the immediate future render more practical aid, in a visible and tangible form, to raise the standard of living of Egypt's growing population and make our contribution towards the cause of peace in the Middle East?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
Yes, my Lords. I can agree to a very large extent with what my noble friend has said, particularly the last part of his supplementary question. We feel that the improvement in relations between Egypt and the West, and now between Egypt and Israel, offers great hope for the future. The operation of aid on the lines I have described, particularly in technical assistance, will prove increasingly helpful to Egypt and, we hope, to the Middle East 2115 generally in the future. As to the nature of the aid, I shall not go into detail to redefine what my noble friend has said about the nature of the aid, except to say this: we negotiate our bilateral aid—and indeed, with others, our multilateral aid—through very close consultation with the Egyptian authorities themselves. They tell us what they want and how they want it.

§ Lord ALPORT
My Lords, can the noble Lord give us any figures for the amount of aid which is now going from the West to Egypt, as compared with that which previously came from the Soviet Union?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I could not, off-hand and at once, give the figures, but I am sure that, when we count the multilateral aid—that coming from the United States, the World Bank and the agencies of the UN—and add that to the bilateral sources of aid in the West (in Western Europe in particular, from us and our partners) it is greatly in excess of anything that flowed to Egypt in the period when they were much more close to the Soviet Union.

Lord HAWKE
My Lords, in view of our traditional expertise in drains and trains, is there not a very wide field in which the Egyptians very badly need our assistance?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, that is very true. Indeed, precisely for those reasons, we have stressed—and the House will have noticed that I have stressed it this afternoon—a movement from capital aid, as such, to technical assistance. This is a big country with a large population, but with a very small proportion of its land usable, so far, or indeed developed. Something like 3 to 4 per cent. is of agricultural validity at the moment. This can undoubtedly be expanded, and so can the other types of industry in Egypt. What they mostly need now—this is what they tell us—is assistance on the technical side, on the infrastructure and in techniques, and this is what we are endeavouring to provide.

§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY
My Lords, will the Minister agree that owing to President Sadat's very courageous 2116 enterprise, this is a moment when we may well support any help that we can give to Egypt without antagonising her old enemy Israel, now that the two countries have shaken hands?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
Yes, indeed, my Lords. I wholeheartedly agree. I think that the tone and content of what has been said in all parts of the House will reinforce what the noble Baroness has said. It is not now a question of affronting old enmities but of encouraging new friendships.

Lord JANNER
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether or not it is indicative of the extremely knowledgeable position of Israel with regard to agriculture that the meeting of President Sadat and the Prime Minister of Israel having now taken place, there is the prospect of an understanding that Israel will help in a very considerable way towards the development of Egypt's agriculture?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I have absolutely no doubt that that is true and will prove to be true once, by mutual agreement, a just and lasting peace has been achieved in that area.