HL Deb 06 December 1977 vol 387 cc1461-4

2.50 p.m.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when the tripartite study of the use of coal resources, involving the Department of Energy, the National Coal Board and the National Union of Miners will be completed and whether the report will be published.

Lord STRABOLGI

My Lords, a report is being prepared by the tripartite working party which, it is hoped, may be agreed for submission to the main tripartite committee early in the New Year. It will be for that committee to decide when the report will be published.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE

My Lords, in thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I ask him whether we are right to expect that this report will cover two studies on gas, one on liquefaction and one on clean coal? Further, would he agree that it is important in the interests of the confidence of the industry that it should be seen that plans are being made now to meet our energy shortage in the 'nineties from an improved and more active coal mining industry?

Lord STRABOLGI

My Lords, the working party has been considering proposals in six areas of coal utilisation and conversion. They are all rather technical, but if the House wishes I will read them out. There is fluidised bed combustion, supercritical gas extraction, liquefaction, pyrolysis, a composite gasifier and low BTU gasification. With regard to the question of coal output, there is unlikely to be any large-scale need for coal for any of these conversion processes in the next 20 years, although pioneer commercial-scale plant may of course be operating earlier. But I agree with the noble Earl that it is up to all of us to ensure that the coal industry is able, by that time, to produce sufficient coal for our needs.

Lord TAYLOR of MANSFIELD

My Lords, following on the noble Earl's Question and his supplementary, could my noble friend indicate the extent and scope of the inquiry or study? Will it include other fuels, such as gas—as was mentioned by the noble Earl—oil, nuclear power and the possibility of utilising the wind and tides?

Lord STRABOLGI

My Lords, so far as I know, it will include gas. One of the proposals is for a composite gasifier, which would include specific collaboration between the British Gas Corporation and the National Coal Board.

Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTON

My Lords, could the noble Lord tell us whether these committees, or indeed anybody else, are inquiring as to the wisdom of consuming our coal reserves at the same time as we are consuming our oil reserves in the North Sea? Is there not a case to be considered that new coalfields should be left until we become short of oil?

Lord STRABOLGI

My Lords, once oil and gas supplies decline, coal is the only practical long-term alternative source of gas, transport fuel and other chemical feedstocks, and most of these processes with which we are dealing are for conversion of coal into these.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE

My Lords, in thanking the noble Lord for the very informative answers which he has given, which gives great pleasure to those of us who are following the subject closely, could he clarify what he said earlier? If I heard him aright, I thought he said that there would be no need for coal expansion for the next 20 years. If I heard him aright, is it not the case that plans have to be made now, given the long lead times which are common to the energy industry, in order to get the great expansion in the 1990s that we are obviously going to require?

Lord STRABOLGI

My Lords, one of these processes—the small fluidised bed combustion unit—is already operating satisfactorily, but it will be about 10 years before large-scale power producing units have been proven. In the case of the others, it will be about 20 years before they are needed. This is the context in which I mentioned the question of coal supplies. With regard to coal supplies in general, of course, the noble Earl has put down another Question for tomorrow.

Lord LEE of NEWTON

My Lords, could my noble friend say why this work is necessary?

Lord STRABOLGI

Yes, my Lords; it is because we shall need coal, in which we in this country are fortunately very rich indeed, to replace oil and natural gas when these run out, and we are now in the course of evolving processes in which coal can be used. It is a very exciting possibility.