HL Deb 01 October 1976 vol 374 cc751-3
Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether apprenticeship schemes are equally available to girl and boy school-leavers and whether publicity for such schemes is directed equally at both sexes.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, I am informed by the Manpower Services Commission that all training opportunities, including apprenticeships, are open to girls as well as boys. The Commission, through the Training Services Agency and the industrial training boards, is taking steps to widen the training opportunities available to women and girls. Publicity material for apprenticeships distributed through the careers service has recently been extensively revised so that it appeals to both sexes.

Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY

My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, which is very satisfactory in certain respects, may I ask him whether he is aware that in my day, when I started working at Toynbee Hall in the early 'twenties apprenticing little boys, there were no apprenticeships for girls, and I therefore welcome very much what he has said? Is he satisfied that the publicity of this new departure for girls is sufficiently well known? That is what worries me.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, in December 1975 the Manpower Services Commission published a report prepared by the Training Services Agency on Training Opportunities for Women and gave it very wide circulation. I addition, there is a substantial amount of literature all of which has been revised and is being distributed through the careers service; that is to say, the local authorities

Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEY

My Lords, as I am sure the Minister is aware, it is apprenticeships for girls leaving school that I am concerned about, because it is the best method of further education, under a good master or mistress, that one can have. I am not so interested in the older women. I want to know whether the young people leaving schools have the same opportunities for apprenticeships.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, the literature is being distributed exactly at that point; that is to say, the local authority careers service, which deals with school-leavers.

Baroness SEEAR

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord, in addition, what steps are being taken through the Education Service?—because the decisions that girls have to make have to be made much earlier than when they have contact with the careers advisers. Does the Minister not agree that it is really inside the schools and the Education Service that special steps need to be taken to make sure that girls make right subject choices at the earlier stage?

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, I am advised that, in general keeping with the thinking of the day, girls are being given wider opportunities in their selection of subjects in the schools than has formerly been the case.

Baroness ELLES

My Lords, is the Minister able to say whether money—and, if so, how much—has been requested from the European Social Fund in order to create new jobs for young unemployed?

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, I have no information on that point.

Baroness ELLES

My Lords, would the Minister kindly get the information and let me know?

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, if the noble Baroness will put down a Question I will get the answer.

Baroness ELLES

My Lords, my question was singularly relevant to the Question on the Order Paper.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, let us be quite straight on this. The noble Baroness asked an entirely different question. It was: How much have the Government got from the Social Fund of the EEC? That is far from the Question on the Order Paper, and I am saying that if her question is put down on the Order Paper I will answer it. I suggest that that is the proper answer.

Lord WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Seear, is a vital one and that preliminary education is absolutely essential if girls are going to become apprentices? Will my noble friend ensure that real steps are taken, because it requires a tremendous effort, and not just a little propaganda, to ensure that girls are given proper technical and scientific education in schools? Moreover, does my noble friend not agree that at the present time education for girls on the science and technical side is pitiful?

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, the primary difficulty is with the girls themselves. For example, the Training Services Agency has experimented in Birmingham and in London with two-year engineering technician scholarships for women only. It was a special pilot scheme, and the number of places available was only 50, but there has been very considerable difficulty in filling them. Arising from that, I think the noble Baroness has a point. If we are going to change the traditional attitude of women then steps must be taken while they are at school. I think the noble Baroness has an important point, and I can assure her that it is one which the education services have in mind.

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