§ 2.53 p.m.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what contributions they are making, through NATO and by other means, to the relief of the victims of the recent national disaster in Turkey.
Lord ORAMMy Lords, the Disaster Unit in the Ministry of Overseas Development has been working closely with the United Nations Disaster Relief Office in Geneva in the implementation of its co-ordinated international relief operation. The Unit has organised Her Majesty's 131 Government's response to priority needs as requested by UNDRO on behalf of the Turkish authorities. Two special flights by RAF Hercules aircraft—one last Saturday and one yesterday—have been made direct to that part of Turkey affected by the disaster. The cost of material relief provided so far is £75,000. Within the last few hours UNDRO has appealed for further heavy duty tents and a flight is leaving Lyneham this afternoon with a consignment of such tents. We plan to despatch another similar flight tomorrow. This is a good example of the quick and close co-operation between the Government and the United Nations co-ordinating body. The Government's Disaster Unit continues to work on a round-the-clock basis and we stand ready to respond to any further specific requests.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that detailed and specific reply and welcoming the motives which have inspired the efforts to which he has referred, may I ask him whether any action was taken specifically under the NATO aegis? May I ask the noble Lord to recall the favourable reply to this concept which was given by his noble friend on 17th May when I asked a supplementary question in a similar vein? Would not the noble Lord accept that if there was a formed and existing body of men and material it would have been possible to get off a flight before Saturday after a disaster which struck on Wednesday? Does the noble Lord accept that that flight arrived on the Sunday and that there were three blizzards between the earthquake and the arrival of our aid? Can we not do a little better in terms of time?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, NATO has been involved but only in terms of helping with the communications. A NATO communications system has been operative, but we and other major donors look, as I have said, to the United Nations Disaster Relief Office to co-ordinate all international aid. This United Nations body has been suitably strengthened to carry out these tasks as well as the all-important assessment of relief needs. I doubt whether the noble Lord's suggestion about NATO would have made any effective difference in terms of time, but, as the 132 noble Lord possibly knows, the possibility of NATO having a stand-by force is being discussed although I should say that Government members of NATO do not regard it with very great favour. Apart from the logistics, in certain circumstances, although not this particular one, there would obviously be political difficulties involved in a NATO operation.
§ Lord HARVEY of PRESTBURYMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that as this earthquake took place nearly a week ago the Minister's Statement certainly gives a better impression than the week-end Press? However, may I ask the noble Lord why we are having to go through all this bureaucracy in Geneva? When the Turkish Government are appealing directly to the world for tents and other equipment can the Government not show some real initiative and help these desperate people who are living under appalling conditions?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I think that we should bear in mind that the Turkish Red Crescent organisation is very effective and experienced and is able to operate in a quick and effective way in the first instance. As regards international relief, contrary to what the noble Lord suggests I believe that, unlike earlier occasions, we are beginning this time to get it right. Rather than rushing off huge loads of unrequested material which does not get through to the essential objective, this time we are getting the right communications and the right requests and we are seeking to get these specific requirements to the right place. Indeed, these flights to which I have referred—and I acknowledge what the noble Lord has said, that it was a much better view of things than perhaps had been conveyed in the week-end Press—have gone to an airport near the disaster area, whereas if they had been rushed off earlier they might have gone to Ankara and been far less effective.
§ Lord ORR-EWINGMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the figure of two aircraft carrying 9 tons each works out that each of the 40,000 refugees from the earthquake, even if the aid was distributed very quickly, would get one and a half ounces of aid? This is not a very big contribution to their wellbeing, their security, their feeding and their health. Would not it be better to make use of a NATO organisation which is geared to 133 quick reaction time in matters of hours, not weeks? It would be a very good exercise as to how our military forces can be brought to bear on the peripheries of NATO in the minimum time possible?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I have already indicated my view about a NATO operation which is worthy of discussion but there are difficulties which perhaps the noble Lord underestimates. As regards the quantity, I believe that this kind of arithmetic can be very misleading. As I suggested in response to an earlier supplementary question, what is needed is an assessment of the basic requirements and the carriage of those materials to the right area. If the noble Lord is thinking in terms of quantity, he should bear in mind that other donors also are involved and that it does nobody any good at all to belittle what has been a very effective operation.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, while appreciating what this Government and other Governments have done and the co-ordinating contribution from the United Nations at Geneva, may I ask the Minister whether it would not be much better, as many of us have urged over the years, that the United Nations itself should have a stand-by emergency organisation with medicines and blankets and so on, so that it can act immediately in such crises?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, that suggestion, like the NATO suggestion, indeed bears examination but my own view is that the present arrangement is the better one; namely, for individual nations like ourselves to set up an emergency unit. This has been done over the last two years and the operations of these units can then be co-ordinated within the United Nations relief organisation.
§ Baroness HYLTON-FOSTERMy Lords, will the noble Lord confirm that the Turkish Government requested the Turkish Red Crescent immediately to release from the warehouse in Turkey, which is part of the United Nations disaster relief programme, 7,500 tents, 7,000 blankets, 12 tons of food, ambulances and a complete medical unit, which were on the spot before anybody else could get there? Is the noble Lord also aware that the British Red Cross is very grateful to the Government for the help 134 that they have given it, and in particular for the aircraft standing by to take the priority needs, which are the Arctic sleeping bags and greatcoats and the heavy duty tents? They have all been requested today, and the Turkish Government have requested that those goods should be sent, and no more blankets.
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her questions, which put this matter into perspective, and I am glad that she has called attention to an additional piece of help that Her Majesty's Government are giving in this connection, in conjunction with the voluntary organisations of which the Red Cross is one. We have indeed made the offer of meeting the costs of a charter aeroplane to send supplies which the voluntary agencies will gather together.
§ The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Peart]My Lords, I hope noble Lords will consider that we have devoted sufficient time to this Question, particularly as we have a large number of speakers wishing to take part in the debate.