§ 2.42 p.m.
§ Lord SHACKLETONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
1112§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what further decisions have been taken by the Government in regard to the recommendations of the Hydrographic Study Group, debated in the House of Lords on 17th December 1975.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, since the debate on 17th December 1975 in your Lordships' House about the Hydrographic Study Group Report, considerable progress has been made on implementing its recommendations. The staff of the Hydrographic Department at Taunton is being increased to improve the standard of maintenance of the Admiralty Chart series; publications are being increased in price by 50 per cent.; and a Hydrographic Strategic Review Body has been formed to review the national programme of surveying on a regular basis.
In addition, as my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence for the Royal Navy announced on 12th October in another place, it has recently been decided that the Royal Navy's hydrographic fleet should be retained at its present size for the time being. During 1977/78 the Department of Energy and the Ministry of Overseas Development, as well as the Ministry of Defence, will contribute towards the running costs of the ships identified in the defence review as surplus to strict minimum defence requirements. The basis of the operation of the Hydrographic Service thereafter is being reviewed with the aim of ensuring that in the long term, and paying particular attention to its commercial potential, the fleet will continue to be able to carry out a full programme of surveying in support of all national requirements. This programme would include work in United Kingdom waters and overseas, the priorities for which would be considered by the Hydrographic Strategic Review Body.
§ Lord SHACKLETONMy Lords, is my noble friend Lord Winterbottom aware that the Answer he just gave will give great satisfaction to many of your Lordships who took part in this debate? Is the noble Lord also aware that it is very pleasant to find the Government actually doing something that the House did not suggest that they should do? May I further ask him why in fact no 1113 more publicity has been given to this other than by Written Answer in the other place? Are the Government unwilling to give good news on subjects of this kind? May I ask my noble friend in the furtherance of the annual review, the review that will now take place, whether the Government will keep Parliament aware of what is happening in this important area, which calls for an increase in effort?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend Lord Shackleton for his bouquet. He has given a very welcome fillip to the publicity about this welcome development.
§ Lord BALERNOMy Lords, are the Government aware that this news will be gratefully received in Scotland, which has a rather larger problem than the adjacent kingdom to the South? Is it possible to obtain an assurance from the Government that on no account will the hydrographic survey be devolved in any future Bill?
Viscount ST. DAVIDSMy Lords, while adding my congratulations to the Government, may I ask, in view of the great load of additional work which has come on to the Hydrographic Department through the North Sea oil programme, whether it is not possible for the programme to be increased? Is it possible that other facilities might be provided and additional revenue found for this purpose from the oil revenues which we expect to receive?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, there is no doubt that the need for scientific surveying of waters around the United Kingdom is of increasing importance in view of our oil prospecting activities. Only approximately 25 per cent. of the waters around this country have been surveyed other than by lead and line, and for this reason a highly scientific fleet is required.
§ Lord MOTTISTONEMy Lords, while adding my congratulations to the Government, may I ask whether they are aware that the commercial selling of hydro-graphic publications still leaves much to be desired? Welcome though it is that the Government are increasing the price of the publications by 50 per cent., have they 1114 considered employing commercial marketing advice in arriving at this sort of decision? Are the Government aware that it appears that an important publication, Ocean Passages of the World, is out of print pending re-issue, and that this is very much in demand overseas?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I do not know the exact number, but the staff is being increased in order to maintain the high standards and good service that the Hydrographer has supplied until now. I shall draw to the attention of my right honourable friend that a certain important set of charts is out of print for the time being.
§ The Earl of LAUDERDALEMy Lords, will the noble Lord say whether the terms of reference of the Hydro-graphic Strategic Review Body, in considering national requirements, will enable that body to look at considerations in international waters where British surveying is still much in demand, although it may not be required strictly by the United Kingdom present needs? Can the noble Lord also say what the phrase "for the time being" means? Does it mean two years, five years, ten years?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I cannot give a timescale, but in point of fact the Hydrographer and the Hydro-graphic Strategic Review Body are taking a world view of the use of this fleet.
§ Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGERMy Lords, why is it a matter for congratulation that the price of publications has been raised by 50 per cent.? How is this reconciled with the alleged anti-inflation policy of the Government?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government that commercial undertakings—and this is a commercial undertaking—should pay their way on a commercial basis. I do not think it is the wish of this House to sell these important charts, which are in world-wide demand from here to Japan, at prices below the cost of production.
§ Lord SHACKLETONMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that my congratulations did not extend to the increase in price? Will he take careful note of the 1115 dangers which now threaten the Ordnance Survey? Will he convey to his right honourable friend the desirability of pursuing a sensible policy with regard to the Ordnance Survey?