HL Deb 08 November 1976 vol 377 cc6-9

2. 47 p. m.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress was made at their recent meeting with officials of the United States Defence Department concerning progress in implementing the memorandum of Understanding on mutual interchange of armament sales.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the discussions which took place last week with the visiting team of high level United States Department of Defense officials were very satisfactory. A full and frank exchange of views too place and we believe that as a result there is a better appreciation on both sides of how the Memorandum of Understanding can be most effectively implemented.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that helpful reply, may I ask him whether he will bear in mind that 13 months have elapsed since the original Memorandum of Understanding was signed and there may be suspicions that, for good commercial reasons, the United States is dragging its feet until this directive is not only signed but reaches the working level where action should be taken? When can we expect the directive now to be signed and circulated?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I think that the delay is not surprising because of the switch in United States' policy which it entails. The United States' team has informed us that it was expected that this directive would be signed within the next few weeks. It would then be widely distributed throughout the Department of Defense and United States' companies. This assimilation of the objectives and terms of the Memorandum of Understanding sould greatly facilitate the efforts of United Kingdom companies.

Lord LLOYD of KILGERRAN

My Lords, is the Minister in a position to say whether these recent high level discussions in any way covered the transfer of know-how to the United States Government relating to the material used for armour plating of tanks?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, if the noble Lord will put down a Question I will answer it. This is rather beyond the present Question.

Lord LLOYD of KILGERRAN

My Lords, I am much obliged.

The Earl of ONSLOW

My Lords, is this matter really beyond the Question, which refers to the "mutual interchange of armament sales"? Is the noble Lord aware that we gave to the Americans the know-how on how to make what is now known as Chobham armour plating? Presumably we should have got something in return for this very valuable know-how. Would the noble Lord care to make a comment on it or inform the House on this subject?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, speaking from personal knowledge and not from a brief, I can tell the noble Earl that there is an agreement for the exchange of military information between the United States and ourselves. Information about Chobham armour was given on the basis of the agreement and that is not a one-way process; there is always an interchange of information. If I am wrong about that I will let the noble Earl know.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, is it not a fact that, despite the good will on both sides, there remains still a substantial imbalance between what we purchase, which is much greater, and what the United States purchases from us? Would it not be a good idea to have regular reports so that we may see what progress has been made under this Memorandum of Understanding?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the starting point of the noble Lord's earlier supplementary question was the imbalance. I agree that it would be of interest to all of us if progress under the new Memorandum of Understanding could be monitored by this House and another place. It is contrary to the policy of successive Governments to publish the details of arms sales, but there would be no objection to a general indication being given from time to time on progress under the Memorandum of Understanding.

Lord ELTON

My Lords, may I ask the Minister to say whather the next stage in implementation on the other side of the Atlantic to which he referred will come before the definitive trials of main tank armament which take place next month?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I would be grateful if the noble Lord would put down a Question on that matter.