§ 11.16 a.m.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I beg leave to ask a second Question standing on the Order Paper in the name of my noble friend Lord Elton.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what funds have been allocated to overseas development education, when they will be released and for what purposes they will he applied.
Lord ORAMMy Lords, my right honourable friend is, I understand, at the final stages of his consultations related to providing funds for this purpose and will, as I told the noble Lord, Lord Elton, on 28th October, make a statement as soon as possible. There will be no unnecessary delay. In view of the questions asked on 28th October I may add that "development education" in this context covers the dissemination of information about the many problems which arise in connection with the development of what is called the Third World, many aspects of which may have effects at home as well as in the developing countries themselves.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Oram, for his definition of development education at the end of his reply. I have two questions to ask him. When the noble Lord replied to my noble friend Lord Elton on the 28th October, the noble Lord said that sums of money needed for development education have already been voted within the aid budget. As this is within the aid budget, could he not reveal today what the sum of money is? Secondly, if this money has been budgeted for by the ODM, why is it necessary to be conducting consultations about it? Presumably the money is there. I wonder what the consultations are directed at.
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I think the noble Lord, Lord Belstead, knows that a Working Party has been meeting to consider this matter.
§ Lord BELSTEADYes, my Lords.
Lord ORAMMy Lords, that Working Party has to take into account the views of a considerable variety of voluntary agencies concerned. As the next stage, my right honourable friend wishes to consult further with them after he has considered the report of the Working Party. It is for that reason that I am reluctant to give figures, but I assure the noble Lord that things are making good progress.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. I know he wishes to be helpful in this matter. Therefore, am I right in concluding that the discussions of the Working Party concern the allocation of the total?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, that would be included, but I understand that the Working Party report includes the suggestion of the setting up of an advisory committee which will offer advice to my right honourable friend about the allocation, rather than a specific allocation within the recommendations of the Working Party.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is my noble friend Lord Oram aware that on 28th October, when this matter was raised, the Government promised consideration of this problem? Is he further aware that since then the Minister has written to me in detail, and that many of us wish to express our appreciation of the fact that the Government have given consideration to this matter? We hope that an early conclusion will be reached.
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Brockway for his comments. As I have indicated, an early statement can be expected.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, arising out of the first reply made by the noble Lord the Minister and the fact that the wording of the Question is a little ambiguous as to its breadth, can the noble Lord the Minister indicate, as has been so widely urged and there has been much discussion in the Press, that, in all forms 1627 of aid to education, emphasis should be laid (which I believe the Government support) on encouragement given at every possible grade and step to divert people from the social sciences into technological, agricultural or other instruction which is widely wanted everywhere with funds supplied by Her Majesty's Government?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, with respect to the noble Lord, his question is very similar to one which was asked on 28th October. I then indicated what was development education in the sense in which Lord Elton's Question then meant and his present Question now means. It was the reason why I added a rather careful definition—and I think Lord Elton wished me to do this—of what is meant by development education. The points that the noble Lord now raises concern the education of people within the developing countries, and that is not the implication of this particular Question, or indeed of the one on 28th October.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, I appreciate the assistance the Minister has given in his reply, but would it be idle to ask for emphasis to be continually applied on this subject in every direction where Government funds are applied? In his reply just now the noble Lord referred to education in this country, but as a great deal of education is given in this country for students from Third World countries and is paid for by Her Majesty's Government does it not seem that the provision of education would apply equally well whether in this country or overseas?
Lord ORAMYes, my Lords, I do not dispute what the noble Lord is saying, just as I did not dispute what my noble friend Lord Peddie said when he asked a supplementary question on 28th October. I am fully in sympathy with this point of view about the need for emphasis to be on technological education rather than on more sociological fields, and so on. But I repeat that what I think the noble Lord, Lord Elton, is anxious to do is to establish the situation about development education in the more precise way that his Question indicates.
§ Lord GRIDLEYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Minister whether 1628 it is the intention of the Government to publish the Working Party's report, because I think this would be of interest to many noble Lords particularly on this side?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I am not sure what my right honourable friend's intention is in that respect, but I take the point that many would find it of interest and I will put the suggestion to my right honourable friend.