§ Lord DAVIES of LEEKMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have considered the possibility of relieving pressure on road transport by the use of the modern airship as a heavy freight vehicle and if not are they now prepared to initiate such an experiment in this relatively safe field of locomotion.
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, the Government have given no detailed thought to the use of airships to relieve pressure on the roads. At first glance the operational advantages of airships—that is, their ability to move fairly large loads of passengers, goods or both between specially equipped points—suggest that if such a system could be made successful it would be more likely to capture traffic from rail than from road. However, we believe any development of this kind is best pursued on a commercial basis rather than by Government.
§ Several noble Lords: Hear, hear!
§ Lord DAVIES of LEEKMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer, and being encourage by the "Hear, hears" that were sotto voce throughout the Chamber, may I ask my noble friend whether she is cognisant of the fact that 18 million internal combustion engined vehicles transversing the roads of England are making a marvellous concrete slum out of England's fragile beauty, and that in this human formicary, human beings no longer seem to count. Secondly, my information is—
§ Several noble Lords: Question!
1252§ Lord DAVIES of LEEKIf noble Lords would wait and understand English grammar, they would know that that is the beginning of a conditional clause.
§ Several noble Lords: Hear, hear!
§ Lord DAVIES of LEEKMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that already the National Enterprise Board have been approached tentatively by Aerospace Development, who are selling 22 airships to Venezuela? They are already consultants to Shell and to the American navy. And this is not a jocular question; it is a question of importance to the future of Britain's engineering. In view of the fact that there was a slight amount of hope in my noble friend's Answer, may I ask whether she w ill encourage the National Enterprise Board to investigate the possibilities of the use of these airships in the future?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, on the first part of my noble friend's question about the concrete jungle that may be created in this country, I may say that 17 per cent, of the traffic on our roads is commercial traffic. Nine per cent. of that consists of light vans and only 8 per cent. consists of heavy lorries. Therefore the roads are needed not only for the lorries but also for cars, et cetera. As to approaches to the National Enterprise Board, that matter of course is not the responsibility of my Department. I can advise my noble friend that a number of approaches have been made to the Department of Industry in the past few months asking about support for the development of various airship schemes. The parties concerned have been told the kind of information that they would need to supply before the Government could consider the possibility of any financial assistance.
§ Lord HALEMy Lords, in view of the necessity for energy conservation, will the noble Baroness give, in terms of megajoules per passenger kilometre, the energy consumption used in transport by airship and a comparable loaded aeroplane?
§ Baroness STEDMANNot without notice, my Lords.
§ Lord GAINFORDMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness whether Her 1253 Majesty's Government are aware that in the United States the United States Navy and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration are sponsoring considerable inquiries into the possibilities of the use of airships for both military and civilian purposes? If so, have the Government any contact with the United States' Government for exchange of information on such matters?
§ Baroness STEDMANNot to my knowledge, my Lords; but I will find out and write to the noble Lord.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether she does not think that there are already far too many gas bags about, without having them flying over us every hour of the day and night?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I hope my noble friend is not referring to Members of this House!
§ Lord THOMASMy Lords, would the noble Baroness agree that in the present economic state of this country, any Governmental money spent on investigating the doubtful merits of airships as transport vehicles would be grossly extravagant and utterly unwarranted?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I am inclined to agree with the noble Lord. From the proposals that the Government might expect to receive, and from the work that they have done themselves, they are not sure that moving heavy loads by an airship would be an economic proposition. There are certain problems involved in the picking up and setting down procedures, and interruption by the weather. It has also been estimated, on very crude statistics, that there are only sufficient such loads in the United Kingdom to keep one airship operational.
§ Lord THOMASMy Lords, will the noble Baroness accept my thanks for that answer?
§ Lord DAVIES of LEEKMy Lords, may I finally ask my noble friend whether she will take no notice of the old curmudgeons who pour scorn on this method of transport, since in 1913 the Daily Mail in a leading article said that aeroplanes would never fly?
§ Lord FOOTMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness this question? When, in her original reply to the Question, she drew a sharp distinction between the carrying on of a businesss on a commercial basis and carrying it on as a public enterprise, was she making a general statement of policy on behalf of the Government?
§ Baroness STEDMANNo, my Lords.
Viscount St. DAVIDSMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that there is one thing an airship could be used for which would be particularly valuable—that is, the carrying of a particular kind of indivisible heavy load which, because of its width, blocks up roads and traffic, causes us to spend vast sums of money on policing the situation and is a thorough nuisance to everybody else? Would the noble Baroness not agree that if such a load could be picked up by airship it would be a good thing?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, there may be something in that argument, but we are not satisfied that airships could ever offer a viable alternative to road haulage. We accept that when there are very large loads on the road they do cause chaos and delays; but even if the consignments were small, the distribution pattern would be so complex that the problems that would have to be faced in developing an adequate network of roads to get from the point of landing and to the point of taking off would possibly add to the concrete jungle that my noble friend referred to earlier.
§ Lord GAINFORDMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that there are people in this country who are designing airships that could give an almost door-to-door service between this country and Europe?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, we have no information about that at the moment.