CAMBODIA (Hansard, 18 May 1976)

§ Lord SUDELEY
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COM MONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government could consider giving assistance to the inhabitants of Cambodia only if it were requested by the Cambodian Government. No such request has been received.

§ Lord SUDELEY
My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government contemplate doing any work with regard to the subject of the Question in the United Nations, and if not, what arc the reasons? Also, does the Minister not agree that it would help if, like other countries, we were to have an embassy in Cambodia?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, it is not apparent that a UN initiative by us, or indeed any other country, would be appropriate, at least at the present time. On the question of our being represented in Phnom Penh, while we have recognised the Government in Cambodia it has not yet been found practicable to be represented in a diplomatic way in its capital; and, indeed, very few other countries are represented there. We shall, of course, continue to look at the possibilities.

§ Lord CARRINGTON
My Lords, can the noble Lord give any indication of how many people have been murdered in Cambodia in the last year or so, and how many have been displaced and are refugees in Thailand and other places? Also, is it not a fact that there was a consensus in the United Nations that we should aid the High Commissioner for Refugees in helping people? Finally, is the noble Lord aware that those of us on all sides of the House who condemn oppression, murder and cruelty from wherever it comes, find it very noticeable that there has been a silence from those who are most condemnatory about what happens in Spain and South Africa?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I shall take the last point first. If there has indeed been a silence I am glad to break it now, and to condemn in no unmeasured terms any atrocities wherever they happen and from wherever they originate, whether it is Cambodia or any other country. That is the Government's policy and attitude.
On the noble Lord's first point—whether in fact we have properly tested figures as to the number of people who have been put to death and displaced—we have no means of checking the horrific reports which have reached all of us. There is no doubt that very considerable numbers of Cambodians have suffered in the way the noble Lord has described, but I am not in a position to give an estimate of numbers. So far as the attitude of the international community is concerned, I believe that I indicated to the noble Lord, Lord Sudeley, how the Government see this point. We are ready, of course, at all times to co-operate with the High Commissioner for Refugees in any meaningful international or, indeed, bilateral context to help refugees and people who suffer in this way. The House will recall that in connection with the Vietnam débâcle the Government set aside £1 million for the rescue and rehabilitation of refugees and others, all of which has now been taken tip. No request has come to us, either internationally or bilaterally, for a similar gesture towards Cambodia, but I repeat that we would be as ready as anybody to consider such a request.

§ Lord CARRINGTON
My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for his answer, but is it not a fact that in the General Assembly there was a consensus to help the High Commissioner for Refugees with money to aid these refugees? Are the Government doing nothing about that?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, indeed not. I am not quite sure whether I am fully apprised of what the noble Lord means by a consensus to assist the High Commissioner in Cambodia.

§ Lord CARRINGTON
No—the United Nations High Commissioner.

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
Yes, my Lords, the United Nations High Commissioner in regard to the situation in Cambodia. We are part of such a consensus. We cannot, of course, operate such a consensus unilaterally. I am not aware that in any particular we have been less ready than any other country to co-operate and contribute towards the efforts of the High Commissioner.

Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDE
My Lords, having been in Cambodia in its happier times, may I ask whether the noble Lord can say whether the population who are still living there have sufficient food and medical supplies? Is the noble Lord able to say what is the general position regarding the people who are still living in Cambodia?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, we have not sufficient information to answer that question in any way which would be helpful to the House, but this we do know. The present Government in Cambodia are making very strong efforts to make the country self-sufficient in staples, particularly in rice. It seems that at least to some extent they are succeeding because they have made donations of rice to nearby Laos.

§ Baroness ELLES
My Lords, I wonder whether I might draw the attention of the Minister to the latest Bulletin from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. The Quarterly Bulletin states that a 12 million dollar fund has been provided specifically to help refugees from Indo-China who are now in Thailand. Those refugees now number about a quarter of a million. Perhaps the Minister could confirm whether the United Kingdom has contributed to this fund. According to the Bulletin, the vast majority of contributors to this fund are from European countries.

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness. If I can identify the precise segment of the international aid which has been made available by us as contributors, I will let her know. Indeed, if the noble Baroness cares to put down a Question, I will give her the particulars. The quarter of a million refugees to whom the noble Baroness referred did not figure in our calculations as to the disposal of the 1266 £1 million which we made available generally to Indo-China. However, I will look into this matter and let the noble Baroness know the details.